54-46, that's my number: the Queens thread

yeah a few blocks in lic are the closest thing queens has to any brownstones and even the pretty garden-style sections of sunnyside, jackson heights, forest hills, kew gardens are a few blocks away from hideous looking stuff. I think if queens had the bronx's art deco housing stock it'd be a much more expensive place...you'd there are certain upper limits to gentrification, like I can't imagine upper class people ever taking over a neighborhood that looks like woodside.

this style architecture:

http://links.mlslirealtor.com/mlsphotos/full/1/570/2324570.jpg

is not just unattractive, it's like, so fundamentally ugly that it's almost impressive

It's just hideous infill.

But from the inside, it probably has significant advantages over the "historic charm" kind of buildings that we all nevertheless prefer. Plus, balcony/ies!

I wish they could just ban those awful cheap metal awnings. it seems like a lot of them weren't originally on the buildings. does anyone know the history of this style?

But from the inside, it probably has significant advantages over the "historic charm"

Well it would depend on when exactly they were built and what the owners wanted for the interiors, but it's like they're built from kits or purchased plans, so interiors are less haphazard than a 150-yr old building that's been cut up 6 ways to Sunday. Plus more likely to have laundry on the property somewhere, plus normally sized rooms that will all have at least SOME kind of window, even if the construction itself is poor-to-middling. Kitchen spaces that are actually kitchens, with recent-model appliances.

Some of the upsides are just from being NEW, period, and I don't imagine the buildings as a whole are going to age very well, so it makes them tolerable to rent but not to buy.

Plus, balconies!

Actually aren't awnings as a general concept super energy-efficient and good? Retractable cloth ones obv much classier than metal ones but also more expensive and need occasional repair/replacement.

even the pretty garden-style sections of sunnyside, jackson heights, forest hills, kew gardens are a few blocks away from hideous looking stuff.

our last building in woodside was probably built 70s/80s not quite one of those barf rowhouses but a 3 story thing with the same pink brick. our current one is 1920s, definitely has more 'historic charm' inside (old school very loud heating, there's a huge very hot water pipe in the bathroom, etc.) neither has laundry inside. def prefer historic charm.

xp

yeah we like to walk to cannelle and the walk up jackson heights is particularly tragic, cause you have some absolutely lovely garden neighborhoods followed by some decent middle class housing followed by the row houses in east elmhurst that are practically mobile homes, but aren't even as nice as mobile homes... some of the ugliest buildings I've seen in my life.

I'm just curious as to how this particular aesthetic choice has persisted so long and spread so far, I mean 'cheap' is surely at the root of it but the buildings made in sunnyside/ridgewood mathews flat style (skillman ave etc.) were also cheap - they'll never be brownstones but they have a definite middle class charm...

Photo example of Skillman Ave style, pls? Looking on gmaps but where I am it's mostly industrial, so....

http://www.astorialic.org/photo/mathew/mathew_index.shtml

So the question is, why is a well-designed building that both the architects and the laborers put extra work into more attractive than a poorly designed/undesigned building that everyone put the minimum of work into? No, seriously, idgi.

the fundamental reason why they're crap makes sense, I'm more curious as to why one particular style seems to have spread

there's an entire blog dedicated to this:

http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/

at least it was when it started. People call the buildings "Fedders Boxes" or something, because they all have those empty boxes below the windows for ACs.

Those Mathews Model flats buildings are in other neighborhoods. I've seen them in Brooklyn, can't remember where.

that's a hell of a blog, dan

Isn't the style we're complaining about from about 70 years later than the GX Matthews buildings? I don't think it's possible to overstate the affect that crappy Home Depot-level building supplies have had on the lower end of housing construction -- it is now possible to get all your cheap and ugly in one place, and looking exactly like everyone else's cheap and ugly. This accounts for probably all of the cheap unpainted pine door jambs and window-frames in the entire city, and all the boob-like light fixtures, and all the really fucking ugly bathroom vanities.

maybe part of bushwick that borders ridgewood?

I always thought that blog was more just general nimbyism (and sorta anti-immigrant/republican).

btw, renovated MOMI theaters and cafe very Kubrickian, but most of the programming is excellent. I will probably go every 4-6 weeks or so.

(still can't get used to AMMI as MOMI, I guess there was an official name change)

and obv I will be around for a few carefully selected Mets games.

Yeah, but in the beginning every post was about how people would tear down a beautiful house in flushing and replace it with a 12 story feders apartment complex and pave over the grass yard for parking.

This was also during the fights over the landmarking of Sunnyside Gardens.

i was serious, dan!

I was responding to iatee's comment about it's content.

(still can't get used to AMMI as MOMI, I guess there was an official name change)

I'm annoyed that there isn't a more popular queens-wide blog than the crapper - which I don't check often but def has moments of flat out racism. but I guess there's not a lot that LIC and queens village residents have in common.

plus despite everything I think infill is actually a great thing (in theory) and an ugly 10 story building is probably better than none at all.

tho I guess it makes sense that the only thing that works as a borough-wide interest is nimbyism

I think 'MMI' is the preferred new acronym

I read queens crap, but dude's position on immigration is off-putting, to say the least.

I think the historic garden coops in Jackson heights are the closest thing to desirable architecture in queens. My building looks very modest from the outside -- one of a row of 6 family 3 story brick buildings - but it was built in the twenties and is actually in great shape and very solidly constructed. Before I lived in a 4th floor walk up apartment building that was also older, nice construction - but for queens. I would love to live in one of the cute houses on ditmars blvd.

there are lots of cool historic buildings in the astoria village area, like the little flatiron building. I like the walk down that block.

oh also around the north-woodside astoria border there's this suburban rowhouse that looks almost frank gehry-esque, completely out of nowhere. it's completely random and I've always wanted to know if there was a story behind it. anyone seen this?

where exactly?

There's lots of pretty areas in Queens but many of them are further out or just too expensive. The really nice JH garden co-ops aren't exactly cheap, nor is Sunnyside Gardens. Parts of Forest Hills and Kew Gardens are gorgeous, but there's not as much to do.

it's either on 31st or 32nd avenue...I gtg but I'll try and find it on google maps later

I take it back, I love you Astoria:

http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2011/02/pachanga.html

Circumstances have been bringing me to Forest Hills and Kew Gardens a lot lately, and I have concluded that either would be a nice place to live were one to have a family. I particularly like Metropolitan Avenue around Forest Park. There is a less suburban-y part of Forest Hills, near Nick's Pizza and the nice Japanese food store around Ascan Avenue that I like as well.

How come no one wants to talk about Richmond Hill?

gah I think it's on a part of the map that google streetview doesn't cover. I swear this strange little house exists.

I've only been to richmond hill once or twice and never ate there...getting to anything that isn't near the astoria/flushing/queens boulevard subway lines is something we can only do on the weekends. living that far on the j/z seems like it would really suck but I guess it's still a step up from no subway land. dan you ate there didn't you?

forest park seemed like it was more forest than park, probably a nice place to go jogging but not much else?

Thanks for the food rec, Dan--that's right around the corner from my house.

I walked around Forest Park when I was doing jury duty and I was going down completely deserted trails and worrying about being assaulted.

But what about South Richmond Hill, home to a vibrant Guyanese and Trinidadian population and the place I am currently posting from?

Forest Park is great, I think it has the largest old growth forest in NYC? Meaning it's not invented like the other big parks but actual old trees.

They have a nice vintage carousel, but be careful hanging out there sitting on a bench with your girlfriend and not children, watching the carousel, because people will likely think you're planning to steal a child.

I've been to South Richmond Hill twice for dinner. First time we went to a place who's name I can't remember and it was great. They were really nice, the kind of place where they just give you a plate of stuff and then they say "you have to try this" and then the woman service you says "mom, can I go do my homework now?" and at the end you're like "how much was that?" and they just make up a number. Had doubles and some jerk chicken and a bit of goat and some delicious desert snack. Went back a few months later with a third person and EVERYTHING was closing and it was only like 8 or something. Really weird. Found some place that wasn't quite as good. I can't compare them to the Brooklyn places though. Been meaning to go back.

Other queens food adventures include Mumbai Xpress in Floral Park, which was OK. They make the kind of indian snack foods that you can't find elsewhere outside of the good places out in Jersey. Also, deep in flushing across the street from Southern Spice, which is a pretty highly regarded/agrued about indian option, is a Sri Lankan place that is one of the dirtiest places I've ever been to, but they had the dish where they take roti and spices and vegetables and meat and fry them all up together while chopping them up, I think it's called Kottu Roti, and it was totally awesome.

Only other Sri Lankan place I've been was at San Rasa on Staten Island, where they have an amazing sunday brunch.

hmm that last dish sounds pretty good, how deep in flushing are we talking?

20 minute walk from the 7 train. There's a lot of gems down there. The Sri Lankan place is called Bownie Restaurant, with Southern Spice across the street. Not too far from there is M+T, one of the more interesting Chinese places in NYC, from a northern region in china...they had a fried fish dish with peanuts and peppers that is the best thing ever:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3848975/mt.jpg

We walked from the Main St. stop once, but mostly drive.

sorry, always mixing up italic and image tags.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3848975/mt.jpg

That's fried fish. Time Out had written about it. We couldn't find it on the menu so we had to point at the review posted in the window. At the end of the meal I asked the waitress what it was called so I could find it in the menu next time. She said that there was an error in the menu and that it was listed as "fish stick soup". I said "that's not a soup." Hope they fix that!

20 mins isn't bad, don't think we've ever been to that part of east flushing. looks like 45th ave is the main commerce street? we've ended up in flushing a lot lately to target/bed bath/etc. furnish our new place.

http://grieve-smith.com/transportation/blog1.php/2011/02/06/envisioning-a-great-walking-boulevard

discuss!

We drive or take the R to the Queens Blvd for the mall and target. Actually more often we drive to the Target in College Point.

he doesn't mention the other alternative, which is Northern Blvd leads directly the Queensborough bridge and is a much more appropriate entrance then Queens Blvd in Sunnyside, which is flanked by small retail, food, several community colleges and high schools, etc.

when we were in woodside we'd just walk to the 65th st station to get to the mall, but now flushing seems more practical than transferring. plus that area is such a clusterfuck, not always in the mood for it.

yeah I like the article and am obviously pro-congestion pricing but that doesn't seem like a direct answer for this problem, triborough has fees and the area around there isn't quite a pedestrian paradise. I think traffic cameras / enforced speed limits + some greenery would be the right start.

How about a pedestrian bridge over the 7 train? Think of the views!