scott, that's not the "Dialogue" LP yer talkin' about is it? That one has a track abt C.S. Lewis and sells for $$$
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Friday, 18 February 2011 17:40 (eight years ago) link
the christian album? no, its the 2nd chapter of acts. a thrift store staple. i posted a picture. does it show up? well, their other albums are thrift store staples. don't think i've seen the narnia album at a thrift store. its seriously over the top. i was enjoying it! one of those albums that doesn't actually mention jesus. cuz, you know, the lion was jesus.
― scott seward, Friday, 18 February 2011 17:48 (eight years ago) link
these are worth checking imo
Agitation FreeÄlgarnas TrädgårdArbete och FritidRobert AshleyBrast BurnDecayesDoo-Dooettes (Los Angeles Free Music Society)Family FodderLuc FerrariInternational HarvesterKlusterAlbert MarcoeurMarsMoolahGunter SchickertSmegma (Los Angeles Free Music Society)Taj Mahal TravellersThis HeatL. Voag (The Homosexuals)
― am0n, Friday, 18 February 2011 18:39 (eight years ago) link
Lemon Kittens - one of my favorite bands ever, the recordss are super expensive thoughGlaxo Babies are great if u like postpunkAlbert Marcoeur's records are awesomeMnemonists and especially Biota = all time greats, same problem with oop vinyl thoughPosion Girls are also a personal fave, but not for everyone (political cabaret peace punk)i think Milton started a Ribiero thread raving about those recordsGhédalia Tazartès - also greatThirsty Moon, Univers Zero - mmm, jazzy euro-prog
― sleeve, Friday, 18 February 2011 21:36 (eight years ago) link
been listening to lots of alan sondheim recently. really dig wolfgang dauner's "output" record, great cover too (been looking for his et cetera krautrock stuff for ages). other than that (from the "less obvious"[?] stuff): music improvisation company, nihilist spasm band and the cromagnon record are all great. surprised just music aren't on the list, fits in well with it anyway. and i second the third ear band, first three especially. oh yeah, and that guru guru/trepte record that came out on united dairies is a blast.
― no lime tangier, Saturday, 19 February 2011 05:39 (eight years ago) link
kinda weird that popol vuh aren't on this list, imo.
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Saturday, 19 February 2011 05:44 (eight years ago) link
it would be interesting to see a counterlist of things that could've been on there but aren't for whatever reason. as to yahowha, i've liked everything i've been able to hear so far, even the sixth root race record, but penetration, an aquarian symphony has some unbelievably intense moments.i'm assuming that the recording of this list on the recent chance meeting with... reissue with it's "this music is all shit" or something similar spoken at the very end is a piece of high irony.
― no lime tangier, Saturday, 19 February 2011 06:25 (eight years ago) link
i laughed anyway.
― no lime tangier, Saturday, 19 February 2011 06:36 (eight years ago) link
been listening to lots of alan sondheim recently. really dig wolfgang dauner's "output" record, great cover too (been looking for his et cetera krautrock stuff for ages).
There's a live appearance on one of the volumes of the Krautrock Nacht dvds by Et Cetera. Not sure which cos it's been a while since I watched that. You might find the set up at Tradersden or somewhere.Demonoid recently had Output upped.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 19 February 2011 22:33 (eight years ago) link
Really trying to think when I met him. He was at a GMIT art dept graduate exhibition. I can't think how long ago that was, could be as early as 2003, could be a couple of years later.Oh yeah he also djed for a friend of mine's club one night, which was probably 2007ish. Anyway first time I met him he was saying that he would probably change a lot of the list's contents if he was doing it at a different time.
By the time I met him he'd discovered Perez Prado, not sure if that was connected to the Guinness ad which was popular at one time.
Kind of surprised that OHO weren't on the list after recently discovering their Okinawa lp. Thought that was one place they were famous from.
― Stevolende, Saturday, 19 February 2011 22:40 (eight years ago) link
Only know the 'Docteur Faust' by Igor Wakhévitch but LOVE 'Sang Poupre' off that.
― the worst dong of the last ten years (Craigo Boingo), Saturday, 19 February 2011 22:44 (eight years ago) link
i think searching for igor wakhevitch is how i found ILX. dominique leone had written something about him.
― jaxon, Saturday, 19 February 2011 23:27 (eight years ago) link
thinking some more about some of these based on my listening experience:
actively disliked the Alvaro "drinking my own sperm" record
didn't really like Don Bradshaw Leather
Zweistein, while cool in concept, kinda falls flat
i am not a big Anima fan but I really like Limpe Fuchs' later solo stuff (mostly on CD)
all the LAFMS stuff is worth at least a listen as noted upthread.
I'm a big AMM fan but their catalog is treacherous and hardly anything is on vinyl except the early $$ stuff and "It Was An Ordinary Enough Day" and "Generative Themes" both of which are meh, their later CDs are where the good stuff is imo.
Anal Magic rec is good
Art Zoyd & Area are RIO related iirc, which might be up yer alley since you've been digging Canterbury
Banten rec is good, so is Emtidi in the same vein
out of all the kraut stuff on this (and there is a LOT) Brainticket might be my fave, there's a poll of second-tier Kraut bands around on ILM somewhere. Agitation Free's 1st 2 are good, don't know the later ones and am scared of them.
Crass are obviously the greatest band ever.
Cupol rec is good, I used to own it. All the Dome stuff is worth a listen as well.
Pierre Henry is dependably awesome, I only have one of the huge CD box sets and it is great.
all Pop Group and Red Krayola pre-reunion recs (excluding the Krayola's "Black Snakes") are all time great.
NON's high point for me is unquestionably Blood & Flame, the Rise 12" is OK, can't vouch for the rest.
i fucking love Sally Timms and have solo recs of hers but that Smitt thing is boring.
Tokyo Kid Brother I found kinda pretentious and overblown despite the heavyweight rep.
Gong, 1st three albums are all time.
― sleeve, Sunday, 20 February 2011 01:22 (eight years ago) link
What a great list! If nothing else, it made me realize that I should be listening to/seeking out way more Kraut, Postpunk, Musique Concrète, Neue Deutsche Welle, Anarcho/Peace Punk, No Wave, Psych, and early electronic stuff than I've currently been doing.
― naus, Sunday, 20 February 2011 15:08 (eight years ago) link
aside from the ones that I know Pete knows, I like these in rough order from most to least -
Debris - heard this 3 or 4 years ago, keep going back to it. An all time faveFriendsound - great late 60s psych, supposedly members of Paul Revere and the Raiders in the studio on mushrooms or somethingCatherine Ribeiro and Alpes - heard No. 2, Paix, Le Temps l'AUtre, like em allIgor Wakhevitch - Docteur Faust and Hathor both great, ditto that I heard about them via ilx / dominiqueAlgarnas Tradgard - cool cosmic prog, reminds me of Bo Hansson but rocks a lil harderMagical Power MakoYa Ho Wa 13MoolahBrast BurnSeeselberg
heard but didn't like - Taj Mahal Travellers (not a popular opinion around here probably? I didn't get it)Dzyan - too proggy, imo. downloaded one record but deleted. seemed wanky.
curious about - are Plastic People of the Universe any good?
― dmr, Monday, 21 February 2011 04:21 (eight years ago) link
this is a really good thread guyz, good work.
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 21 February 2011 04:33 (eight years ago) link
im sort of not interested in PPotU or YaHoWa, and imma really need someone to explain the appeal of taj mahal travelers to me. im not sure if ive ever heard them, so it's not impossible, but for some reason, i feel some aversion?
wanna hear ribeiro+alpes and algernas tradgard (though i think ive heard them) soon -- my buddy mike (who introduced me to ILX in 2k3) used to freak about igor w so much.
― 69, Monday, 21 February 2011 04:42 (eight years ago) link
i think i might try to pull together an All NWW List show this week, though it may be shamefully kraut-centric.
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Monday, 21 February 2011 05:02 (eight years ago) link
Art Bears - have owned both 'winter songs' & 'hopes and fears'. sold winter songs and am currently trying to sell 'hope songs'. never got into henry cow and kinda not really into dagmar's voice. Robert Ashley - fell in love recently w/private parts and the video operas that are on youtube because 69's always talking about him. so great. Franco Battiato - love the first few records. later stuff is kinda boring. selling 'Echoes Of Sufi Dances'. it's not bad, just sorta boring. Han Bennink - euro free jazz drummer. i think pete should check out. looks like there's a 40 min doc in dutch or german on google video that you can see him torture a drum set. pretty impressive. he worked a bunch w/ Peter Brötzmann who i also think you should check out. have you heard Last Exit? so great.Brainticket - so so so greatComus - amateurist sent me a cdr of their first record years ago. is he still around? these guys are great.Deutsch-Amerikanische Freundschaft - <3 <3 <3Dies Irae - this video is one of the greatest things on the internetEtron Fou Leloublan - french rock in opposition prog group. selling a copy now. i'm not totally into super angular, jagged prog anymore. Flying Lizards - love this one. are these guys like the cool/non nerdy residents? i dunno, never really listened to the residents.Fred Frith - even tho i don't love henry cow or art bears, his 2 solo albums "gravity" & "speechless" are dope. Ron Geesin - recognized his name from the weird album he did w/roger waters "music from the body" but didn't know until now that he orchestrated my fave pink floyd album "atom heart mother". and produced bridget st john. need to check this guy out.Gong - i don't like the quirky early stuff. really dig the later terry riley gone funk rock sound of their late 70s records.John Greaves and Peter Blegvad (Henry Cow/Slapp Happy). - just sold greaves' "Accident" to a friend this afternoon. really great record. artfucked bowie of sorts. Osamu Kitajima - love this guy. japanese sorta new age. worldy, folky, proggy. kinda reminds me of jade warrior. check this track he did w/minnie ripperton doing wordless high pitched vocalizationsMichael Mantler - love anyone that has robert wyatt sing for themMythos - love these guys. selling a copy of dreamlab. want a copy of concrete city.Yoko Ono - love you, booEvan Parker and Paul Lytton - pete is this the kinda euro jazz/free improv you're into? or more the big beat you over the head kinda stuff?Der Plan - never fell in love w/these guys. a bit too silly. but love groups they were connected w/: pyrolator and dafRed Krayola - always on the fence. 80s post punk stuff is cool. 60s freakout is cool. but never straight up loved.Catherine Ribeiro and Alpes (French band) - recently picked up "Le Rat débile et l'homme des champs + Alpes". so great. french prog. tim buckley + annette peacock + weirdness.Ray Russell (musician) - was just saying to check him out on the jaaazz thread. freaked guitar. Terje Rypdal - another great jazz guitarist. has some stuff on ecm. spaced out 'in a silent way' type of stuff. but mixed w/like 20th cent orchestra stuff.Samla Mammas Manna - all i know are the albums they did w/frith that i mentioned up there ^. swedish rio prog group.Snatch (Judy Nylon) - post punk group. i heard a rad song on a brian eno comp.Patrick Vian - been meaning to look for this record. love the cover.Igor Wakhevitch - have the cd box set. need to revisit. only loved dr faust the first time because the other albums were too ambient spacey synthy, but those sound right up my alley now.Robert Wyatt - all time favorite ZNR - hector zazou's thing. always thought was a lil plinky plonky, but people who's taste i really appreciate love this guy, so...
― jaxon, Monday, 21 February 2011 05:58 (eight years ago) link
In defense of Taj Mahal Travellers, I much prefer the 1st LP (1972) and the August 1974 2LP that was reissued on P-Vine. The Oz Days stuff and that Stockholm concert bootleg aren't as immediately tactile. But it is floaty and amorphous at heart. Immersion music, not background music.
Would also second jaxon's Fred Frith, Flying Lizards, and Han Bennink recs (Bennink has also played w/The Ex)
Pataqphonie, New Phonic Art, and L'Infonie fall under what I would consider the large avant orchestra heading.
Decayes are a pretty crazed US band, worth a listen, on Mutant Sounds I think.
In the Art Bears maybe Dagmar's voice is a bit harsh and commanding, but put her in the softer settings of Slapp Happy and I melt.
I much prefer the Hector Zazou solo rec from the late 80's that I have to the ZNR stuff.
― sleeve, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:16 (eight years ago) link
oh also that Michael Mantler/Edward Gorey/Robert Wyatt/Carla Bley album is gold.
― sleeve, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:17 (eight years ago) link
more love for arzachel pls
― ooma boogy wow wow (electricsound), Monday, 21 February 2011 08:18 (eight years ago) link
maybe ill come by tomorrow afternoon and jam some NWW list shit w u jaxon...
i just bought-it-now a copy of the greaves/blegvad LP the other day, and im very much looking forward to hearing it. i think i used to feel about parson sound the way i feel about taj mahal travelers, but i now enjoy parson sound a lot, so maybe TMT are right around the corner.
hey also, i could be interested in nurse with wound's own records and also throbbing gristle. i know this is now officially thread-abuse, but i dont care on ILV. please feel free to weigh in on that stuff, too, ok?
― 69, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:27 (eight years ago) link
thread-abuse put out some pretty incredible cassette only releases in the 90s. i think i went to their reunion show, but it might have just been a members-of thing and the main guy wasn't there.
― sarahel, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:30 (eight years ago) link
never heard evan parker, jaxon -- i associate his name w like electronicky free improv? i could def be down.
oooh right gong! right now i wish i hadnt given my friend my little-jammed camembert electrique. i feel like im coming to a time where id love to hear it a lot. also, pink floyd. im ready for atom heart mother and meddle and animals and obscured by clouds. harvest records hurrah!
xp LOL SL i was just thinking about that fictional band as i typed that phrase
― 69, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:33 (eight years ago) link
i like peter brotzmann but i have ZERO interest in last exit
― 69, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:35 (eight years ago) link
evan parker has definitely done electronicky free improv, but he's also done some some blistering more free jazz-like stuff -- like Topography of the Lungs w/Bennink
― sarahel, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:35 (eight years ago) link
also love sharrock, and dont specifically hate laswell, but the whole conceit of last exit bothers me for some reason
― 69, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:38 (eight years ago) link
xp im into both those idioms!
hahahah A+ sarahel
my NWW LP POX as of today:
Sylvie & Babs (dissected kitsch)Huffin' Rag Blues (the same but different)Soliloquy For Lilith (dark & meditative)Brained/Gyllenskold (spooky)Rock & Roll Station (trippy)An Awkward Pause (epic rock psych jamz)Spiral Insana (perfection, my favorite)Ostrananie 1913 (best of the early stuff)Automating Vol. 1 (superb early comp work)Thunder Perfect Mind (brutal noiz plus long psych jam)
TG, well, you can't go wrong with DOA or 20 Jazz Funk Greats or Heathen Earth or any of the singles (or The Endless Not).
― sleeve, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:44 (eight years ago) link
as far as TG goes, I prefer their live recordings to their studio albums
― sarahel, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:45 (eight years ago) link
see Pete you just need them all!
sarahel which live ones would you rate in particular? for me it's Psychic Sacrifice and Rafters.
― sleeve, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:48 (eight years ago) link
heathen earth is great, as is live at the death factory -- i think the latter was the first TG album i ever bought, though it was actually a cassette.
― sarahel, Monday, 21 February 2011 08:52 (eight years ago) link
things i esp like on the list
xenaxis - electronic music, devastating comp inc 'bohor' which is one of the greatest pieces of music ever, monumental and scary and a total inspiration for ppl like double leopardsl. voag - the way out - quirky britishes post-punk, great bass playerghedalia tazartes - transports - all tazartes is gd and unclassifable, but this might be my faveray russell - secret asylum - contains 'stained angel morning', his all-time great gtr skronk-outairway - live at lace - no other recs sound like this, kinda muffled noizeamm - gotta disagree w/ sleeve here, love their early albs like ammmusic and crypt, really raw free improv stuff before the whole 'thing'/genre totally codified/settled - i jam lots of their later albs too, but they're much more glacial and within a recognisable tradition (i put that down to john tilbury)steve beresford - bath of surprise - again, 'quirky' brit improv w homemade instruments/electronics, toys etc. big fave of otomo yoshihide, this albalvin lucier - i am sitting in a room - well duhanthony moore - music from the cloudland ballroom - really charmin kinda post-lamonte young vocal droning/chanting (the singers keep collapsing into laughter) plus pre-post-rock and other groundbreaking shitnihilist spasm band - no recordtony oxley - inchos - all of oxley's late 60s albs are essential brit free improv w/ most of the big names like parker, bailey, rutherford etc - this one has never been reissued on cd and features a great cover shot of oxley's electronically augmented drum kit
keep thinkin the east bionca rec is on the list, but don't see it
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 21 February 2011 09:25 (eight years ago) link
so glad i bought that l.voag from my pal bob years and years ago. cuz i ain't seen another one since. love that thing.
― scott seward, Monday, 21 February 2011 21:09 (eight years ago) link
I really do need to make more of an effort with this list. Have known some of these names *forever* but have still not got round to listening to half of them.
― ka£ka (NickB), Monday, 21 February 2011 21:23 (eight years ago) link
it takes time. and a lot of downloading unless you are made out of $$$$$. and i don't download.
i take it one day at a time. plus, i like so many kinds of music. i can only do what i can do.
just got a secret oyster album last year! didn't even remember they were on this list. good stuff.
― scott seward, Monday, 21 February 2011 22:48 (eight years ago) link
I should clarify that I do like the 2 early AMM recs that I know were on vinyl (Ammusic and The Crypt) a lot more than the two later ones I namechecked up above.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 01:26 (eight years ago) link
Brainticket - so so so greatComus - amateurist sent me a cdr of their first record years ago. is he still around? these guys are great.Flying Lizards - love this one. are these guys like the cool/non nerdy residents? i dunno, never really listened to the residents.Snatch (Judy Nylon) - post punk group. i heard a rad song on a brian eno comp.
co-sign all these, forgot about Snatch, "All I Want" is the jam
need to hear more Brainticket
I think I played out Flying Lizards "Herstory" at Cake Shop when Pete's band played there. The Roots sampled it on "Water."
― dmr, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 03:13 (eight years ago) link
yes! i have it on a comp - forget the title
― sarahel, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 03:25 (eight years ago) link
Maybe a good way to start with Taj Mahal Travelers is Takehisa Kosugi's "Catch Wave" solo release?IMO any fan of free drone could fall head over heels for them. I don't listen to them very often just because I feel like they deserve undivided attention.It's got a "holy drone" vibe, I think.
The first thread I started on ILM (Swedish prog folk) was looking for more bands who do Swedish psych folk prog the way Algarnas Tradgard and Arbete och Fritid do it. I think I like Arbete och Fritid a lot more than most people on the board. "The European Way" is so epic!
― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:06 (eight years ago) link
Taj Mahal Travellers C/D
― am0n, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 19:18 (eight years ago) link
It's got a "holy drone" vibe, I think.
ok sold sold sold
― 69, Tuesday, 22 February 2011 20:06 (eight years ago) link
playing all nww list rekkerds next 2 hours, www.eastvillageradio.com (til midnight eastern us time.)
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:07 (eight years ago) link
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:29 (eight years ago) link
ok so far this debris thing is something i should already know about holy shit
as for the NWW the big discovery for me was Smegma, but I went into it repping for This Heat so they are prob my fave
i should prob not get started on NWW album recommends tho because uh ill be here all night.
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:42 (eight years ago) link
Yes, ian, you star! Probably should go to bed rather than listening all night, though, it's already almost 4am.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:42 (eight years ago) link
emily the show will be archived and listenable from eastvillageradio.com under the academy records show.most of this stuff is pretty 'surface' level...
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:45 (eight years ago) link
i am putting aside the howling wolf documentary i was going to watch to listen to this. i will try to resist a full on liveblog unless other people show up on this thread tho - but i do want to say this taj mahal travelers thing is def hitting the right chord with me at the moment - also one of the more direct nwwoundy things ive heard off the list
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:48 (eight years ago) link
Ah, brilliant ian, thanks. You have a lovely voice, btw.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 23 February 2011 03:49 (eight years ago) link
inconstant sol is pretty reliable -- has been posting free improv stuff for many years.
Also, I finally heard Lemon Kittens -- and they are totally awesome
― sarahell, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 22:02 (five years ago) link
I have been really really into them lately, even more than usual. All of Karl Blake's solo output is also totally awesome (The Underneath and Evil Twin especially, Shock Headed Peters too).
― sleeve, Tuesday, 7 January 2014 22:10 (five years ago) link
Stapleton is selling some of his record collection...
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:02 (three years ago) link
one of those black sun ensemble records is soooo much better than the other
was a photo of his collection on d.keenan's twitter feed the other day btw:
― François Pitchforkian (NickB), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:24 (three years ago) link
arent a handful of bands on that list made up or something. i remember hearing someone tell me it was a wild goose chase sort of thing
― Treeship, Friday, 19 February 2016 17:34 (three years ago) link
don't think so, but I could be wrong
hope you mean the S/T there!
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:37 (three years ago) link
mentally merged these two as Chamberpot Charlie. if i ever own a racehorse, well...
― François Pitchforkian (NickB), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:38 (three years ago) link
ja ja ja! been a looong time since i ran aghast from 'lambent flame' tbh, though maybe i might like it more now?
― François Pitchforkian (NickB), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:41 (three years ago) link
my advice is "don't go there"
― the 'major tom guy' (sleeve), Friday, 19 February 2016 17:42 (three years ago) link
i have that dimthings record in my store right now. it's a hard sell.
― scott seward, Sunday, 21 February 2016 17:21 (three years ago) link
also, the Ultra album is essential.
Given their obscurity, some of the artists named on the list have been a mystery for many collectors. Stapleton has even boasted that some of the names on the list were invented, a statement absolutely refuted by John Fothergill.
― new noise, Sunday, 21 February 2016 18:28 (three years ago) link
― new noise, Sunday, 21 February 2016 18:32 (three years ago) link
yowza, this looks awesome - I don't think I've heard a single one of these tracks
― sleeve, Tuesday, 16 July 2019 22:39 (three months ago) link
Well, you're in for a treat. The only tracks I recognize by name are Lard Free's "Warinobaril" and the Horrific Child's "Frayeur", but they're both stone cold classics. (The Horrific Child is probably the best record JP Massiera put out.) I know the others by name - the only Mahjun I spin regularly is a dodgy audience bootleg from a '76 French rock festival but it's a jam.
― Un Poco Loco Moco (rushomancy), Wednesday, 17 July 2019 01:27 (three months ago) link
I have the ZNR record the track is from, I'm sure because of the list...
― S-, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 11:36 (three months ago) link
Not sure if I know the particular tracks, but Etron Fou Leloublan have some great stuff, also know Horrific Child, Henry and Guerin. Which means there's still a lot for me to discover there.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 13:38 (three months ago) link
I did a weird French music of the 70s comp for a friend a few years ago that had most of these tracks and/or artists on it!
― Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 July 2019 14:41 (three months ago) link
Have never heard of Mahjun though.
― Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 July 2019 14:42 (three months ago) link
are these all French bands?
― sleeve, Wednesday, 17 July 2019 14:42 (three months ago) link
― Orpheus Knutt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 July 2019 14:44 (three months ago) link
a lot of these artists can also be found on the first disc of https://www.discogs.com/Various-30-Ans-DAgitation-Musicale-En-France-30-Years-Of-Musical-Insurrection-In-France/release/3074205
that release is focused on super rare shit though
― Un Poco Loco Moco (rushomancy), Wednesday, 17 July 2019 15:41 (three months ago) link