TOMBOT and john justin should not be mods

How private can a board be when invitations are easier to get than Thrifty Nickel flyers?

hey forks how's your "hot dog"?

n/a lovin it

http://www.kansasstatefair.com/photo-gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2599&g2_serialNumber=1

How private can a board be when invitations are easier to get than Thrifty Nickel flyers?

oh god let's not go there again

also can we do something about this raggett character, he's being a real dick

kind of a personal question there blueski, but she's good.
http://tofuhut.racknine.net/2007/Banjo/DSCN1262.JPG

you do know my comment was directed to tuomas and not you right?

well tuomas was pretty much directly quoting me and I don't think that's what either of us were getting at but anyway whatever fergit it k thx bye

Tumoas, Ed:

My objection to an admin log is not that it will necessarily make things worse, because I don't think that. I do think it will not make things better. Often it is couched that the only reason people are complaining about some moderator action is because there is no admin log where they could have found out, and there's an implication that there would be a lot less meta-noise if they could just see it in an admin log.

I am quite convinced that being able to see what happened will not be linked to a reduction in complaints in moderator actions, because the two don't appear linked to me. I don't think it'll make it worse, because people find out anyway, so in many ways the admin log is quite superfluous. I think this is pretty much in line with old ILX, where people did complain about things they saw in the admin log. I don't actually think the amount of complaints has increased or reduced since then.

In any event, I have written it, and will implement it once I do a few more things and I get a new broadband provider, one that works.

My main objection was to having a moderator's name associated viewable alongside an admin action, which I still object to for the reasons discussed on the admin log thread. I suspect I will object to this until my dying day.

Oh and incidentally, if it took no work to do, then I wouldn't object to doing it, even if it didn't make any difference, but it does cost me time and effort, so I like to spend that time and effort on things that aren't wasted.

TL;DR. please provide capsule review.

I don't argue that an admin log will reduce complaints overall. it's likely to increase complaints but will also reduce general queries about mod actions, so in terms of traffic it's likely to be a wash. but in a "who watches the watchmen" sense it's an important thing to have.

srsly though, thanks for taking the time and effort to code something you see no value in.

from the bottom of my lovely little heart, go FUCK yourself

Oh my gosh, Ned!!!!

You are a swell guy.

The issue at hand here is whether John and Tom do it as often as the people who are getting hit with temp bans. Obviously, some people think they do and some people think they don't. Unfortunately, among the people who think they don't are the people who control/run the site; THEY are the ones you need to convince, not ILX in general.

yeah, see, that's what i was tryna get at. i didn't mean for this to turn into a PILE ON TOM thread; this is addressed to whoever is in charge of this shit (keith? stet? idk) cuz yall need to get ur acts 2gether. tom's just a dude tryin to do a job that he doesn't have the temperament for, and that's not a slam on him at all - it's just like, y'know, starting a defensive tackle at free safety.

Cool Cankles because I am entirely supportive of Tom on this. Thanks for your support.

And JJ for that matter.

but in a "who watches the watchmen" sense it's an important thing to have.

This is true, if (a) it actually needs it and (b) if you distrusted the watchmen, who are the guys in charge of admin log, why would you trust that they (i.e. me) made sure that everything was properly recorded to the admin log?

hi

huh

well that's settled

lol what support? i'm calling you out for being the retard who put these dudes in charge in the first place!

out of curiosity, cankles, since people seem to understand doms temp ban, was there any particular reason you included me in this complaint, or were you just all riled up and living in the moment?

he was talking about john justin

that guy gets me into so many awkward situations

but you get out of them justin the nick of time

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll70/renny_038/emotion/emotions%20gif/13368.gif

I have a few complaints about this BLAKE BEYONCE character.

Keith = Obama
Cankles = McCain

G'night folks.

yeah i drew that same comparison earlier tonight after mccain spoke out in favor of an admin log

I think Tom is doin' a fine job, and I wish more of the mods had shorter tempers and didnt put up with as *much* shit.

trayce temp banned

LOL

cankles is a black man.

Trayce too.

; )

You know, if there were only watchers watching the watchmen watching the lamemen, I would have been temp-banned a long time ago.

And people would still mistake you for Jess.

i tried to change it, like a lot.

i think the MODS were blocking that shit.

honestly

r u drunk?

jess RIP

gr8080: yeah but j/k and good vibes. wanna change ma name!

yeah dude you post a little weird when youre drunk

also please never ever again talk about being horny on ILX

rules to live by

but in a "who watches the watchmen" sense it's an important thing to have.

This is true, if (a) it actually needs it and (b) if you distrusted the watchmen, who are the guys in charge of admin log, why would you trust that they (i.e. me) made sure that everything was properly recorded to the admin log?

I'm on another forum (local and a lot smaller than ilx) where there's no admin log. but no one's ever been banned there and the mods are around mostly to make sure the thing stays up and running. however, ilx is a forum where "controversial mod edit" is a meme, so it's hard to claim it doesn't need it. (also, "need" is a funny word, can it keep running without it, sure, but obv a number of people here desire one)

re: trusting that everything is properly recorded to the log... the idea is that there are two levels here; a programmer develops an admin log where the system automatically records all changes (or changes of a certain type), and mods would not have the ability to change entries in the admin log. if a mod tampers with entries in the admin log you've got to question their motivation for doing so.

most auditing measures rely on the fact that there isn't collusion to defraud the auditing mechanism. if people collaborate to defraud, then yeah, there's nothing you can do. the assumption here is that the audit mechanism makes transparent the actions of individuals in a certain role (i.e. mods). one would assume that if you made abbott a mod then you/pash/tom/ned would like to know if, in a fit of yucca spine poisoning induced delirium, she went and banned a random bunch of people and deleted half the threads in de subjectivism.

Yeah, a log isn't as big a deal to me as it is to other people, but it seems like it would at the very least eliminate some of the kind of mystery and ambiguity of the moderation. One time when I was giving Tombot a hard time about modding, I brought up the fact that when Jess went on a rampage deleting threads all over the place a couple years ago, it seemed more funny and harmless, partly because it wasn't that malicious and partly because there was a log so it was at least easy to see what was going on and there wasn't a ton of "where did my thread go?" controversy and finger pointing that tends to go on now. Of course, I said that in a more confrontational way and Tom called me a cunt and locked the thread so he could have the last word, but those were crazy times, we can laugh about it now.

Yeah I think we discussed the Jess thing at the time and I put in something to not allow anyone to delete threads unless they were on the new answers page (and hence people, wll other mods at least, would see them and take action), so not sure about admin log being necessary there, even if it was how things were found out then.

FWIW as I say, my main problem with admin log is the implication that somehow there will be less noise because of its presence. I suspect the only less noise there will be is down to people not complaining about the lack of an admin log!

I don't think there'll be less noise per se, or if that should be the goal. But it'd be nice if people knew who and what they were making noise about, instead of saying "someone deleted my post" or "who banned so-and-so?" or just assuming it was someone like Tom or JJ when it could've been any number of mods.