overplayed style

an informal moment of silence for the irreparably damaged Dewalt

Are we all returning to the artisanal qualities of our grandfathers' worlds because we hate our fathers and everything they've done to us?

um yea idk if a dude's dedication to his vehicle is comparable to how he feels abt his jeans or boots or w/e

true - it's a matter of degree - like the death of a dog vs. the death of a goldfish

ftr, my grandfather has had the same leather tool belt and nail pouch for as long as I've been alive. It has a bitching patina and I will appropriate it for myself when he dies.

The Pacer is the goldfish in this story and boots are the dog, right?

he loved that Pacer like a dog

an old, farty, kinda senile dog, but he loved it all the same

like the archetypal working outdoorsman this trend evokes -- his attitude towards clothes is functional, practical, and disdainful of fashion -- if he wears his boots out, or his shirt tears and the wife can't mend it, well he just reorders the same thing from the supply catalog

the problem arises when they change the design/manufacture of that thing -- and i think that's what this trend speaks to -- "they don't make it like they used to" syndrome

Haha I just wrote and deleted a couple of lines about how people who are actually FROM the North Country or whatever semi-fictional places this gear is supposed to be worn, those people are more likely to be found wearing local state university sweatshirts and probably a garish ski parka. Even at the most woodsman-ish end of the spectrum, LL Bean, maybe Woolrich are about the most "authentic" you're gonna find.

my dad actually is from the north country & I used to steal his old wool sweaters and jackets and plaid shirts back in the 90s. wish I still had some of them. but I've always liked tweeds and plaids for this reason - he was a really sharp dresser. college professor from lumberjack/mining country I guess. but I feel like it's OK if that's actually what you are? it's a shame that everyone looks so sloppy now.

And while yuppie loggers are an easy target for scorn, a little less that's disposable in our culture is a perfectly fine thing. Even if it all just gets shunted to thrift stores and flea markets, someone will use it. It's a variation on a look that's been seen as a good look pretty continuously since the '50s, from James Dean to Neil Young to Cobain, etc.

from a global economic pov distain for cheap/disposable dovetails nicely w/distain for the rise of the developing world - whats viewed as cheap by privileged people is almost always actually more efficient - making a big irl difference in many peoples lives - tho obvs environmental impact is the big unaccounted for variable

just to be clear im not accusing anyone of anything

okay milo except you're confusing 'workwear' with 'durable clothes' -- a well-made suit in sturdy wool will last for years, too -- quality bluchers can be polished & re-soled for a lifetime -- imho 'durability' is just coded ruggedness / masculinity wrt this trend

from a global economic pov distain for cheap/disposable dovetails nicely w/distain for the rise of the developing world - whats viewed as cheap by privileged people is almost always actually more efficient - making a big irl difference in many peoples lives - tho obvs environmental impact is the big unaccounted for variable

dovetails nicely sure, but the original arts and crafts movement occured more than 100 years ago and had nothing to do with the developing world - replace 'british people in factories' with 'chinese people in factories'. I don't think people who think this way have ever really cared about that side of the argument, so it's not disdain for the developing world in any sense except 'they don't care enough to think about the effects on the developing world'

cheap chinese crap *shakes head*

and while its a nice notion, it's ultimately kinda naive to think that our durable clothes will survive to inspire further generations of style -- just as likely it will get compacted into shipping containers and sent to the developing world to undermine local textile markets, or else dumped into landfills, or incinerated

like the archetypal working outdoorsman this trend evokes -- his attitude towards clothes is functional, practical, and disdainful of fashion -- if he wears his boots out, or his shirt tears and the wife can't mend it, well he just reorders the same thing from the supply catalog

fwiw this is an attitude I really appreciate. I have ordered many pairs of Dickies/jeans online. I am not disdainful of fashion, I am just lazy.

which is sorta what's dissonant about this whole trend---the whole thing about The Last ___ You'll Ever Need ("welp I've figured out my boot situation for the next decade") is totally at odds with the mutability of fashion and trends and w/e.

anyway I feel I should confess that my winter boots are 40+ yo leather Sorels that I will have repaired when they start to go. I love them.

I'm pretty specifically talking about durable workwear - suits seem kind of irrelevant since we haven't been talking about them. But even including suits, there's a lot of variations in 'well-made wool suits' that won't get worn today. '70s lapels, big-ass '80s shoulders, etc.

Workwear is a rather self-effacing aesthetic (inside of the margins) - that's the stuff that survives, becomes 'timeless' (like a simple gray wool suit) etc. And it's one reason, beyond the coding or whatever motives we want to assign to Real Dudes, that this stuff is seen as separate from 'fashion.'

You've got your Thom Brownes making suits look goofy and Brooklyn hipsters overdoing workwear, but the underlying elements never seem to die and when put together right appear fashionable.

I don't think people who think this way have ever really cared about that side of the argument, so it's not disdain for the developing world in any sense except 'they don't care enough to think about the effects on the developing world'

This reeks of 'people who are into local/organic/etc. agriculture don't care about billions of people who rely on GMO/pesticides/etc.'

We're all first-worlders who waste money (relative to the developing world) left and right, even when we're not even middle class for our society. Do beer drinkers and record collectors not care about the developing world either?

Demanding that everyone follow suit on your personal choices would be shitty, but it's also a strawman 99% of the time.

well i think to the extent that people think their sturdy/organic lyfestile is virtuous they are somewhat clueless and comically self involved, not villains or anything

Do beer drinkers and record collectors not care about the developing world either?

do you even have to ask???

but yeah ice cr?m otm

just liking the vibe and acknowledging its somewhat arbitrary stylistic concerns is imo a much more defensible pov imho

right milo, just saying that workwear doesn't have a monopoly on 'durability' or 'timelessness' -- v often these are just values we assign to clothes when we want to flatter ourselves as savvy consumers -- and there is a lot of workwear inspired clothes made now that will prob look awful & dated in a few years, so *shrug*

How is it not virtuous, though? If you can find and afford eggs from pasture-raised chickens is that not better for the environment and the chickens vs. factory farming? Is it not better to get tomatoes that grow in your local climate from a farmer's market rather than ones trucked in from across the country?

Comparing Americans to the developing world on this stuff is pretty ridic, IMO. We are making choices from a different set of options.

We're all first-worlders who waste money (relative to the developing world) left and right, even when we're not even middle class for our society. Do beer drinkers and record collectors not care about the developing world either?

Demanding that everyone follow suit on your personal choices would be shitty, but it's also a strawman 99% of the time.

I mean, I'm not doing this ^^^ (this time) but it's hard to argue with the fact that 99.99% of us are all incredibly wasteful every single day and don't really give a shit enough to seriously change our behavior. and the fact that we all are isn't an excuse for us being!

Too much assigning of motives on this thread, IMO, bordering on strawmen. Real Dudes drive like this, organic consumers eat like that, so-and-so want to feel like savvy consumers.

and there is a lot of workwear inspired clothes made now that will prob look awful & dated in a few years, so *shrug*

This reminds me, wasn't there a ridic expensive flannel linked upthread that is just like a hundred others except slightly differently styled/colored to be both reminiscent of yore and also have just that right-now touch? Yeah, THAT subtle distinction is precisely what will date it eventually.

I don't think that it's that being a locavore/consumer of "quality" goods is or is not virtuous, it's that it's no more virtuous than say calling yr mom now and then

there's nothing wrong with buying durable, well-made clothes and wearing the hell out of them; just don't try to convince me that 90% of the ppl on this bandwagon will still be dressed like this in 5 years

its not virtuous, its a hobby

Too much assigning of motives on this thread, IMO, bordering on strawmen. Real Dudes drive like this, organic consumers eat like that, so-and-so want to feel like savvy consumers.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:23 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah w/e ill believe this when friends stop hyperventilating abt plastic shopping bag

btw i flatter myself as a consumer every time i go thrift shopping so it's not like i'm judging anybody

Virtuous doesn't mean saving the world with every purchase. But if you're in a position to buy food with less environmental impact, or objects made by people receiving a decent wage and you choose to do so, then I'd say you've done something that is basically good for society.

yeah but that 'good for society' evaporates as soon as you drive 2 miles (etc.) - I mean it's good to do things that aren't objectively bad for the world, but you gotta put them in perspective

perspective being 'basically everything you do every day is really, really bad for the world'

calling yr congressman once is better than buying ten pounds of organic produce

Who's not putting them in perspective, though? Outside of Alice Waters (who is crazy IMO) I've never really heard anyone say you're a bad person for not being a locavore. Certainly never heard it re: clothes.

(and how does a completely separate act negate positives? Do people not drive to buy winter grapes from Chile and sweatshop Nikes?)

I've never really heard anyone say you're a bad person for not being a locavore.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, February 15, 2011 3:41 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

srsly

perspective being 'basically everything you do every day is really, really bad for the world'

My Congressman is Joe Barton btw, calling him would be infinitely less productive than eating a single organic grape.

this thread is about scoffing @ style bloggers ppl, come on

it'd be like if ppl in england started fetishizing what wealthy english "farmers" wore as they tramped around the property with a shotgun broken over their arm....oh wait

but afaict in britain what we got of this trend is burning out really fast, and will be gone again in a year. entry level alts buying h&m/top man versions of barbour jackets. true hipsters seem to have moved one to a c.1980 home counties punk thing, doc martens, donkey jackets, cheap wool sweaters, etc.

for me one of the weirdest things about the 2010/11 version of this style is that, at least insofar as i experience it via blogs and occasional visits to austin/la/ny, it so reveres english manufacturing. this is not something i have ever heard advanced here.

(actually the weirdest thing is those blog posts articles by people who have convinced themselves that there is a street off oxford street where people discovered the secret of shaving in 1790.)

anyway my point is not to lol at americans but to point out that the preppy/lumberjack looks are not ambient vibes that will never go away. and yes they are played out. there i said it. boom.

anyway wrt to styles being "overplayed": the reason prep/lumberjack can even be ~over~ played is because they're background styles in american couture pretty much since rich ppl and the frontier were invented. they'll subside in time and ranchers and yacht owners will still do what they do.

xp!

(actually the weirdest thing is those blog posts articles by people who have convinced themselves that there is a street off oxford street where people discovered the secret of shaving in 1790.)

yeah, this, for real. shaving being a "thing" is almost certainly overplayed, and i'm glad i don't know many ppl that go into raptures about their boar hair shaving brush and whatever

obvs weve gotten a lil far afield and im not trying to totally impeach anyones motivation, i just want to impeach it a little - i def think there is a desire to embue what are essentially stylistic choices w/greater meaning - this prob has something to do w/people viewing themselves as powerless consumers ~modern lyfe~ etc

basically otm

~fashion~

Maybe I'm easier going on this because I don't seem to know anyone who's annoyingly obsessive about any of it. IRL I know a couple of people who wear flannel shirts, in e-life I 'know' people who are interested in how leather ages so they like, took up belt and wallet-making as a hobby. Prep never much of a thing here, few Texans would willingly emulate fratboys from the southern East Coast.

I also don't read style blogs.