Throwing Muses: C-o-D

skip Hunkpapa, but dl 'Dizzy' - it is a jam

seconding s/t, rr & esp. the Chains Changed EP

I still need to hear Fat Skier

Ugh I hate "Dizzy"!

Well no not hate. But I dont like it.

i don't mind dizzy but it seems like time has been unkind to it

will agree with everyone saying real ramona and the debut

ST first album is one of my all time favourite records.

― Bonnie Tyler The Creator (Doran), Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:48 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

not too soon >> everything else tanya donelly ever did

Nar I prefer her on "Reel"!

"Fat Skier" is a really good ep btw. Especially "Soap and Water", which is a delightfully schizy scattershot jam.

"This is my house, roll out the red carpet/hogs head on a ragdoll/never was a little girl"

Wait thats Garoux des Larmes. Anyway.

"Low Red Moon" was the best song Tanya ever recorded, you pack of trolls!

The order you first hear these things makes a big difference; I heard House Tornado before the debut and the latter always seemed kinda grey in comparison, like its muted cover. I sort of forgot about it for years. HT still sounds perfect and powerful but the debut I only really rediscovered thanks to reading Rat Girl last year, and it's incredible.

The received wisdom on Hunkpapa is that it's stymied by airless, flat production cos there are certainly some great songs in there, kinda writhing to get out (kinda hanging on his sleeve).

The Real Ramona has dated a fair bit to these ears. Red Heaven better than I thought it was on release. The subsequent records all have their moments, but nothing to touch the thrill of S/T-Chains-Fat Skier-HT.

I will happily listen to/read anything Kristin puts her hand to.

I was surprised to learn lately that "The Letter" (from Hips & Makers) was originally a Throwing Muses song written in 1984-5. so it's not so much a recollection/reliving of her past as it is an immediate expression of anguish. the recording I heard (from a 1985 radio session) is a 7-minute-long VU drone, but the sound quality is awful.

does anyone know if the bootleg of early ('83-'84) Muses demos is any good?

Wow thanks guys. I don't know how I never got into them earlier but this is sort of a newish discovery for me even though based on stuff I've listened to and loved throughout the years I should have been a fan for a long time by this point. Thanks for all the input. Will check it all out.

never heard those early demos, would be interesting. there are some live recordings spanning 1989-2009 at archive.org - http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=(collection:ThrowingMuses%20OR%20mediatype:ThrowingMuses)%20AND%20-mediatype:collection&sort=date
think there's 50 foot wave and hersh solo stuff too.

Oh I've heard some of (all of?) the early demos when they had that other member who played keyboards. Some of it was utter cheese! Like, nothing at all like what was to come - just clumsy 80s home pop band.

you also definitely want to listen to both Kristin Hersh and Tanya Donelly's solo work. at the very least, Crooked and Sunny Border Blue for Kristin, and Lovesongs for Underdogs for Tanya

thanks, tyler (xxp)! that's a lot to take in. there are some early Muses recordings here, including the early demos (which I haven't heard), a live set from 1986, and some early acoustic versions of tracks from their s/t.

in terms of recommendations I second their first two albums and The Real Ramona (I really like the way the guitars sound on that one). Kristin's solo album Hips & Makers and Belly's Star are also essential.

oh cool thanks right back atcha.
real ramona has a real early 1990s college rock sound, but in a good way imo.

"Dirt is on the Floor" is the one I'm thinking of. It wasnt even K singing I dont think?

Yeah see that's the thing I am a fan of their solo work and loved Belly too. For some reason I just never really went as far back as TM. shrug. Changing that now.

unregistered - I love Star and King.

not too soon >> everything else tanya donelly ever did

it's amazing!

The production of University is a real hindrance to an otherwise excellent, harrowing collection of songs.

what's wrong with the production on that record? too guitar heavy? i liked it the last time i played it.

I dunno, I love it an' that ("Not Too Soon"), but I recall seeing TD play "Green" on that first Belly UK tour and, I swear, there were grown men with tears in their eyes. And the song was only six years old at that point, you'd have thought it some half-a-lifetime-away nostalgic rush or something.

Real Ramona is 20 years old this month. Good grief.

tylerw, it's too...dry? Monotonous?

"Fat Skier" is a really good ep btw. Especially "Soap and Water", which is a delightfully schizy scattershot jam.

― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, 10 February 2011 23:14 (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Soap & Water is alltime for me also

I quite like how ~thick~ University is but it is so so different to anything they did from say 88 or before, I'm not surprised ppl were prickly about it

yeah, it seemed to be their "we're a ROCK band" record to some extent, but i dig it. Narcizo sounds great on it. And Hersh's vocal on "Shimmer" is scary good.

Oh I've heard some of (all of?) the early demos when they had that other member who played keyboards. Some of it was utter cheese! Like, nothing at all like what was to come - just clumsy 80s home pop band.

― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 3:28 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

Wow I never knew that their 1st 7" EP was a legit release! Why has this not been put out on CD?!?! yeah the one keyboard-based song is awful but it has The Party, which is total spine-tingling amazement.

Ah yes thats the one! Thats right, I remember being staggered that "Santa Claus" was so old. It sounds really creepy on that ep, very cracked and raw.

sorry to videobomb, and the sound's not the best, but I've watched this a million times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1exb_Uk-i-M

intense yo

I love seeing them live. I've seen them about 4 times now I think. Earlier on they were riveting - she'd look so posessed. These days she's a lot more laid back but still kicks ass hard. I took my ex to their last show here (posted above) and afterwards he would not shut up about how hot Kristin was.

Man I need to listen to the Bob Mould duet now.

Aaaargh I havent ripped half my TMs albums, what is the matter with me! *grump*.

"Dio" isn't as moving in reality as it is in memory.

I dunno, I love the matched roughness of Bob and Kristin's singing.

When I was in high school and the first album came out, I said to my friend David "imagine how amazing it would be if this chick sang with Michael Stipe?" (at the time REM hadnt turned into the bloated mess they are now of course).

So when she did "Your Ghost" I think I died a little bit.

Yeah I only listen to Stipeless versions these days. Such a great song.

Maybe it's because "Hunkpapa" is the first Muses record I ever bought but I find a lot to recommend on there. "Devil's Roof" is great, and "Mania" and "The Burrow" are both freakin' amazing.

Following the publication of "Rat Girl," Kristen and the Muses have been releasing free "Season Sessions" via the website, one each season, with newly-recorded, stripped down versions of Muses songs. There's a version of "Hook In Her Head" in the most recent set that is absolutely fucking tear-your-head-off great, probably better than the version on "Ramona." The complete track lists so far have been:

Fall
-----
Buzz
Devil's Roof
Flying
Mania
Mercury
Red Eyes
And A She-Wolf After The War

Winter
---------
Colder
Shark
Soap & Water
Juno
Hook In Her Head
Night Driving

If you don't already have them, grab them right away.

wow thanks for that

The only time I saw her was with 50 Foot Wave. I like everything that she's trying to do with that band (loud, not centered on her, etc) but I find that what really draws me in is that spare, desperate sound like on "You Cage", most of Hips & Makers, and some of the 1st LP. I tried Grotto and didn't click with it at all, maybe it's time for a revisit.

Another version of Mania is never a bad thing!

Ugh I hate "Dizzy"!

― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:09 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Well no not hate. But I dont like it.

― Senor DingDong (Trayce), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:10 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't mind dizzy but it seems like time has been unkind to it

will agree with everyone saying real ramona and the debut

― down in the eustachian tube at midnight (electricsound), Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:11 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

I still like Dizzy quite a bit, but my fondness for it may be mostly rooted in nostalgia -- it was the only Muses song I knew for the LONGEST time, when I was a kid, b/c it was on one of those cheap Sire 'Just Say ________' comps, which I used to rock on my walkman ALL the time. I think 'Counting Backwards' may have been on another one of those. It was def the 'college rock' phase of TM that I gravitated to first. It wasn't until a few years ago, actually, that worked my way back to the more esoteric early records (which are def my current favorites). I really dig the Chains Changed ep b/c it combines the best both eras imo, esp.'Finished' & this track (not a beatles cover):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcRvKaea5Q

ooh, that's one of my very favorites.

Finished is possibly one of my favouriteist TMs songs.

Ta for that link too Phil!

"Two Step" slays me.

^ If I were putting together a DJ set of early-90s 4AD releases by indie bands from eastern New England, I would fade "Two Step" into "Wave of Mutilation (UK Surf)."

An underrated song on RR is "Red Shoes."

I have such a soft spot for Limbo that I hate to ever see it slighted, even like this: "The subsequent records all have their moments" from upthread." Must be a highly subjective sentimental thing, but it's my go-to TM.