Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

Also, if you like Brötzmann you would probably like The Thing.

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, February 4, 2011 9:33 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ they come to atx a lot and u must take advantage of this and buy their t-shirts and shit

<3 the thing a lot

i never said the necks here...did anyone? they are jazz to me...and absolutely some of the best music i've ever heard. great ilm recommendation.

great thread so far! two comments would be;

re: sanders, i don't think he's the guy to go to for frenzied; for me he's far more of a tone guy - just beautiful playing that fits whatever he's asked to do or wants to do so well; he never seems out of control but at the same time whilst being poised and calm and sounding so natural it's also intensely moving and deep.... ilxor you should make Karma the first choice for him... it really is one of the most amazing pieces of music of all time.

also backup what someone said about going to see more live jazz. some of my favourite shows of the last few years have been from Mulatu Astatke, Sun Ra Arkestra, Richard Bishop - after a pretty indie rock dominated diet of live shows, its such a pleasure to watch live jazz! to dudes who can really play! also early this year, The Ex touring with 'Brass Unbound' (Mats Gustafsson, Roy Paci, Ken Vandermark and Wolter Wierbos) was just mindblowing! intense post-punk jamming with those cool konono influences and then those guys blowing the roof off, pushing into the mix with little solos and really having fun showing off to each other - and the mostly indie kids crowd really vibing off it with lots of dancing. SO GOOD.

The Ex touring with 'Brass Unbound' (Mats Gustafsson, Roy Paci, Ken Vandermark and Wolter Wierbos)

oh my god this sounds incredible

think it was a one off tour unfortunately

Yeah, I was bummed when the Ex show at Big Ears last year wasn't with BU. They were fantastic as always anyway, but --

How'd the weekend driving/listening go, ilxor?

My Coltrane Impulse Volumes 1 & 2 sets arrived yesterday. So that's 10 discs for less than $60. I'm happy. (Already had A Love Supreme and Live at the Village Vanguard on vinyl, btw.)

Also, Miles' E.S.P. has been hitting hard the last few days. This is from 1965, the first studio effort from the Second Quintet, if I'm not mistaken.

It kind of baffles me to contrast the stuff Miles was doing 65 and after to the stuff Coltrane was doing pre-65. I could be waaay off base here, but seems like Coltrane was pushing the envelope in more obvious ways earlier on. Miles obviously moved his share of mountains, but perhaps in less obvious ways. What I mean is...I hear some of this mid-60's Columbia stuff and while I absolutely adore it, it's not until I read some (usually) musicology analysis of why it's groundbreaking that I realize it's more than just amazing sounding stuff.

Contrast with the Impulse era Coltrane stuff from as early as Africa/Brass (1961)...I hear this and my immediate thought is "woah...dood is *inventing* stuff!"

I'm probably totally full of it. Go gentle.

well Miles was definitely the most high profile jazz guy to abandon both swing AND acoustic instruments and replace them with electrified improv funk-skronk. that was a pretty titanic shift.

i think that's just it, the impulse coltrane stuff is innovative in really accessible ways. there aren't very many chord changes, and there's a lot for your ear to latch on to -- his sound, great melodies, an incredibly earthy and forceful rhythm section. whereas those miles records often push the envelope in really technical ways...speed, harmonic complexity, messing with the time, etc. it's really crazy shit, right? but it works on more of an intellectual level imo.

btw wayne shorter's "speak no evil" has always seemed like the perfect intersection of the miles and coltrane groups

that's a great album, and funnily enough I've been listening to it a lot lately again

That first Tentet was such a great snapshot of Chicago jazz (and Brotzmann) at the time.

Going to see Wayne Shorter tomorrow night. Have no idea what he's going to play. Am kinda hoping he premieres new music, since he's only made one album featuring his current band and that was back in 2004 or so.

One studio album, I mean; the group has also released two live albums, one in 2002 and one in 2005. Both are excellent.

Possibly too simplistic, but whereas Coltrane headed toward sheets of sound, in 64-65 Miles went toward sheets of silence.

How'd the weekend driving/listening go, ilxor?

Hey, thanks for asking! I took an absence from this thread for a while, still playing catch-up. The driving/listening was fantastic, in particular I latched onto one album that I'll hopefully get around to reviewing later tonight once I knock out some actual productive tasks around the house (i.e., NOT SITTING ON ILX).

Teaser: it starts with "C" and ends with "oltrane," if that helps to narrow it down at all...

By the way, I came across a couple new arrivals in the used bins today. Any thoughts?

John Coltrane - Ballads (from 1962, I believe)
Sun Ra Arkestra - Live at the Paradox (think this is the right title... it said "under the direction of Marshall Allen, so I'm guessing post-'90s live performance -- correct me if I'm wrong)

(Feel free to close the quotation up there and pretend I'm not an idiot.)

Ballads is excellent. Don't know anything about the Sun Ra disc, but can't imagine anything recorded post-Ra being worth anyone's time.

John Coltrane - Stellar Regions (1967)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/314GQEQ965L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

This one hit me hard. And it's going to be tough to write about, I have a feeling.

Stellar Regions was recorded a few months before Coltrane's death. I learned this in the liner notes, naturally, but not until I'd played it a few times and heard something very intense, emotionally charged at times, but also at peace, in Coltrane's playing on this record. I'm not sure why his playing grabs at my heartstrings where other jazz albums that I've found enjoyable haven't had such a strong emotional pull. But there's something intangible about Stellar Regions that elevates me to a different place when I'm hearing its music.

There's an imperfect beauty to Coltrane's playing on this record. He starts out most of the tracks laying down a simple motif, a pattern, or a few repeated notes. He repeats it, unchanged, for good measure a few times. And these are *gorgeous* progressions, simple, very beautiful. After a few repetitions, he throws in an off-note, taking it higher up the scale, perhaps. And then a bit further next time, and again, again, until a couple minutes into a piece he's transformed it into something barely resembling its original form. He'll strain to hit notes that his sax seems to barely allow him to play -- screeching, out of tune, as if his instrument is straining to "sing" at the limits of its upper register and can't quite get there. And he sticks to playing these intense, seemingly freeform blasts of notes for sometimes a minute or two, sometimes five, then comes back down... returning to his original motif. Like a rocket ship blasting off to Stellar Regions (see what I did there?) and then coming back down, landing, after a trip into the stars.

I'm not sure how well that describes any of what I've actually heard when I play the album. But it's what came out when I typed, and I'll leave it be. Seems fitting for an album I can put on, close my eyes, and imagine Coltrane closing his eyes as well and playing whatever his heart, mind and hands tell him to play. This isn't a record that impresses me with technique or skill (though I'm sure it's there). It's an emotionally gripping record. A beautiful journey.

Stellar Regions was recorded in a single-day session in 1967, then left unreleased until the mid-'90s when Alice Coltrane started going through her vaults (and God, I hope there's more stuff like this that she's released over the years, I'd eat it up).

Rating: ✰✰✰✰✰

By the way, holy shit you guys, LOOK AT THAT EVOCATIVE COVER ART!!

A+

this guy

OTM. great record, unique in his catalog (though disco 3000 is comparable, i guess

oh I dunno I think it's of a piece with several others - On Jupiter, Strange Celestial Road, Sleeping Beauty. Lanquidity is probably the out and out funkiest though.

I think there seems to be a whole era of his around that late '70s/early '80s mark that has a lot of that sort of stuff. Though I guess he was also doing acoustic material through a lot of that era too. Certainly finding a lot of electric space funk turning up around then.
Still slowly wading through Detroit Jazz Centre from the Xmas to New Year week in '80. Has some sublime stuff on.

Listening to Where Pathways Meet on my walkman yesterday, possibly because it's a big band playing but the music lanscape seems to stretch out for miles. yum.

btw wayne shorter's "speak no evil" has always seemed like the perfect intersection of the miles and coltrane groups

Looks like the Sun Ra album I mentioned upthread, Live at the Paradox, was recorded during a September 2008 residency and released in 2009. Four tracks penned by Sun Ra, four by Marshall Allen. Gonna pass on it for now, methinks...

http://www.amazon.com/Live-Paradox-Arkestra-Marshall-Allen/dp/B001U1K5R6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1297273114&sr=8-1

I'm listening to Mostly Other People Do The Killing's double live CD on Clean Feed, The Coimbra Concert, and it's fucking amazing. This band kicks so, so much ass. The lineup is Peter Evans on trumpet, Jon Irabagon (profiled in Burning Ambulance #3!) on saxophones, Moppa Elliott (who writes all their material) on bass and Kevin Shea on drums. The music is hard-swinging free bop, basically, but they throw in old-style New Orleans polyphony, extended solo horn passages including circular breathing, skronky free stuff, and much more; it kinda reminds me of Wynton Marsalis's 7CD Village Vanguard box crossed with Sonny Rollins's Our Man In Jazz. Really, really exciting stuff.

I don't know that particular Live at the Paradox set but imho the Arkestra under Marshall Allen is still a great live show. I saw them as part of Arthur Nights several years ago (w/Wayne Kramer sitting in lol) and they were the high point of the show.

The lineup is Peter Evans on trumpet, Jon Irabagon (profiled in Burning Ambulance #3!) on saxophones, Moppa Elliott (who writes all their material) on bass and Kevin Shea on drums.

have i gushed about how awesome Peter Evans is on this thread? Kevin Shea is great, and also funny.

Anyone read those Ashley Kahn books on Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme? I wonder if reading those would be a worthwhile exercise for me; using my most familiar recordings as a basis/springboard for some general knowledge about jazz in general.

I found them very interesting. I remember the Miles one better possibly because of the citing of influence by other musicians. It went into how several JBs and Duane Allman among others were directly influenced in their musical thinking.

Both were fascinating though

re: sanders, i don't think he's the guy to go to for frenzied; for me he's far more of a tone guy - just beautiful playing that fits whatever he's asked to do or wants to do so well; he never seems out of control but at the same time whilst being poised and calm and sounding so natural it's also intensely moving and deep.... ilxor you should make Karma the first choice for him... it really is one of the most amazing pieces of music of all time.

The frenzied stuff is his earliest, the ESP discs and live with Trane.
Think he worked beyond that shortly after Trane died, though there are elements on his late 60s/early 70s work if I'm thinking right.
Not listened to Karma in a while, but isn't there a honking section somewhere in Creator's half hour plus?

ilxor i suggest you check this hard, hard track. shepp is a monster on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpE9SN81H6E

I could be waaay off base here, but seems like Coltrane was pushing the envelope in more obvious ways earlier on. Miles obviously moved his share of mountains, but perhaps in less obvious ways. What I mean is...I hear some of this mid-60's Columbia stuff and while I absolutely adore it, it's not until I read some (usually) musicology analysis of why it's groundbreaking that I realize it's more than just amazing sounding stuff.

I would tend to think that you are thinking from a perspective permeated by innovations brought in years earlier. Subsequently you wouldn't really notice what changes were being made on historic recordings since you were living in the result of those changes.
Might depend on which record you were talking about too. & some stuff might be more subtle than others anyway.
Coltrane was inventing on the stand all the time & doing so inside solos. One of Miles innovations involved spontaneous group improvisation, would that provide a reason it was so noticeable?

Listening to Coltrane Live at Birdland right now and this is gorgeous stuff. Hard to really give it my full attention at work with a cheap earbud in one ear, but even then it's really something. Loving it. Will listen closely soon.

I need to go back through the past 1-2 weeks of recommendations here and add them to the master list I've made... yikes!

So much good music.

Coltrane was inventing on the stand all the time & doing so inside solos. One of Miles innovations involved spontaneous group improvisation, would that provide a reason it was so noticeable?

― Stevolende, Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:58 AM Bookmark

Not sure what you mean by this, esp. "spontaneous group improvisation." Group improvisation goes back to new orleans jazz, and there are varying degrees of it in almost any kind of jazz. Do you mean the particular way he loosened the bebop structure with the 60s quintet? I don't think he so much innovated group improvisation as played around with the parameters of group improvisation.

But yeah I tend to think that a lot of Coltrane's innovation was in terms of what the soloist does (though he pushed other boundaries in his last few years), whereas Miles was more interested in changing the group dynamic.

stevolende, do you also post on IHM?

So I've been listening to less jazz in recent weeks. Overdid it a bit, I think. But now I'm spinning some records again. Anyone heard the following? Saw these over the weekend for pretty cheap:

Coltrane, John - Living Space
Coltrane, John - The John Coltrane Quartet Plays
Hancock, Herbie - Maiden Voyage
Sun Ra - Space Is the Place

you need the herbie and the sun ra! go buy now! quick!!!

The Herbie is a '60s Blue Note thing, looks and probably sounds v different from '70s space-fusion Herbie. And the Sun Ra is on Impulse—his highest profile release I've come across to date.

it is, but its terrific blue note hard bop

that sun ra is prob my fave

yeah dude maiden voyage is a quintessential record of that genre, it is a requirement to at least hear it at some point

Well hey, I picked it up today for $4 so rest assured I'll be hearing it soon!

$4 seems so cheap for a quality used jazz CD, but that shit is still like, a fuckin 6" Subway sandwich. Is Maiden Voyage better than a 6" turkey on wheat w/ all the veggies? Where is Whiney G. when I need him?? ;_;

lmao

I only skimmed the thread, but i didn't seen anyone mention the Duke Ellington album ...And His Mother Called Him Bill. It was in dedication to his arranger who past called Bill Strayhorn. My co-worker burnt me a copy. I would suggest this album to ilxor if he likes jazz music that calms you and makes you reflect on life.

***My only sheepish contribution to this thread***

Runs Away

Ahh...was curious how you were doing with this, ilxor. Thanks for the update.

My Coltrane obsession has kind of gone full-bloom. I've been slowing making my way through the Impulse! records (Africa/Brass through A Love Supreme) and just finding myself getting more and more sucked in. Loving the way each album becomes more and more ingrained and enjoyable with each listen. That self-titled 1962 album has become a favorite. Keep reaching for that one, it seems. At first, the mellow and traditional vibe of the Duke Ellington and Johnny Hartman records (as well as Ballads) kind of threw me for a loop, but I find them to be the perfect album to either begin or end a day with.

Such great amazing music and to imagine how I am not even beginning to scratch the surface is kind of daunting and fantastic.

Also, I recently picked up a vinyl copy of Coltrane's "Om". Woah. That is some ish for which I am not quite sure I am ready...

That self-titled 1962 album has become a favorite

Yeah, that's one of my favourites too! 'Out of this World' is absolutely gorgeous.

Also, I recently picked up a vinyl copy of Coltrane's "Om". Woah. That is some ish for which I am not quite sure I am ready...

Jealous

Coltrane's Meditations is popular, but I don't see First Meditations (For Quartet) mentioned much. I think I like that one even better, up there with 1964's Crescent, with Transition just behind it, and then The John Coltrane Quartet Plays and Sun Ship. All are essential 1965 Coltrane. The 1962 Coltrane is nearly perfect too. Hard to go wrong with him.