S/D X-Men Runs

new blog update! This one contains Alpha Flight!! Go read it!!!

lol @ the ILE thread link btw!

Thanks D.A.M.! Just posted a new non-X one, on Batman: Gothic. Next time round, X goes ham with Proteus, Kitty, Emma, Dazzler. I'm pretty excited about that one, I think the run is finally getting to that golden point where you don't have to table any quantity of "well, it was the 70s" type stuff, it's just really consistently enjoyable and involving.

what's the url?

http://kangaratms.com/

xxp yeah Dr. Casino I agree that's exactly the point where things get really good!

I'm trying to read all of GMo's stuff in real time, so I will prolley have to come back to the Animal Man & Gothic stuff...

Enjoyed David U's tale of getting thrown out of Grace O'Malleys -- that used to be my old work pub. Horrible place...

Surprised to learn DU's a Torontonian, never met him but we probably went to every one of the same nerd events...

Hey hey we finally got to Dark Phoenix! It's a realll long post, be warned. Editing these things is HARD. And if you missed it, there was another one where we did Proteus and Emma/Kitty/Dazzler...

Nice post!

:) Thanks!

Yeah, that was a meaty read. Though if you guys think that John Byrne was the only one on that team who had a problem with women, dig a little deeper on Chris Claremont. This doesn't excuse Dark Bondage Sue Richards or anything.

I thought it was pretty explicit that Claremont intended for Jean to be a human who wielded a force that was much more than human. If you really want to read more on that, I'd suggest tracking down the CLASSIC X-MEN books that reprinted/retconned that period. There might be more textual nuggets to be gleaned in those (as well as some nice John Bolton art, even if I felt that the retcons were often wrong-headed and unnecessary.)

I actually had a chance to talk with him at SDCC in, oh, geez, 1989 or 1990 where he confirmed that (and politely put aside the thought that he had anything to do with Jean's resurrection in X-FACTOR).

this blog just gets better and better, Doctor Casino! one of my favorite things on the Internet right now...

excellent stuff as ever - re: yr reprint options, dr c, am pretty sure the old phoenix sage tpb doesn't have any original ending material, as i sought that out online for the first time as a result of reading the blog, and i had never read it before.

Awwwwww, thanks y'all, this is really encouraging. I was worried the DPS blog was too flabby and long-winded, it started out at 6600 words and I just barely got it down to 5900..

Yeah, it seems pretty clear that Claremont wanted the "human tapping into too-big powers" story. If the story had run as intended I don't think I would even find the ambiguities that seem to be there. It's still maybe a suspect narrative in terms of sexism, but I think CC does deserve credit, despite his pitfalls, for pushing his female characters to the front of the story and not having them just be accessory characters to the male heroes' narrative (ie women in refrigerators). At one point in the mid-80s, if I'm counting right, the X-Men are majority female! I can't think of another super-team that's ever hit that mark without it being the gimmick of the book. Some of his female characters do suffer from CRAZY WOMAN syndrome but, I think, they are at least interesting crazy stories - - Rachel is basically a traumatized war refuge. And Illyana is the survivor of an abusive childhood, convinced that she is somehow tainted or evil as a result, despite the fact that she basically only does good deeds. That's a great angle for a story - if you're going to do "women with problems" I'd rather see that than, you know, Malice. But maybe I'm being too charitable.

No, Mr. Claremont should get credit for putting female characters on a par or above most of his male characters, particularly on X-MEN. But there's some odd vibes that come off of them at the same time. And sure, compare Rachel to say, Brian Bendis' Scarlet Witch in HOUSE OF M, et al. Wanda in that just comes off as BLEARRRRRGH HOWARD DEAN SCREAM CRAZY whereas Rachel is troubled and self-destructive (love the EXCALIBUR-era 'hound' suit for that) but an actual character.

hooray I was actually checking this blog each day last week thinking "where is my goddamn Dark Phoenix post"

the old phoenix sage tpb doesn't have any original ending material

Marvel Masterworks edition (which I just borrowed and re-read recently) has the original ending plus a long interview with all involved (Shooter, Claremont, Byrne, etc.)

All that material, including the roundrobin discussion was sold as PHOENIX THE UNTOLD STORY or somesuch. I can't recall the date it hit, but I want to say 1987? Might've been to help gin up interest in the X-FACTOR book of the time, but that was all a very long time ago. There were pencil pages from it published in Fantagraphics' X-MEN COMPANION BOOK II from the early 80s.

Yes, Fantagraphics put out not one, but TWO books on the X-MEN back in the day. The second one is a great find by the by. I'd assume the first one is just as good in terms of content, etc.

yeah all that stuff is in the Masterworks edition, plus some b&w/pencil art Phoenix story that ran in some other special edition mag

How is the coloring in those? I always get edgy when they leave the old colors in place and just run them on glossy paper without toning them down. Generally looks TERRIBLE and would rather read the newsprint scans that I have sitting on my hard drive.

looked nice to me but I am hardly a stickler for such things. I like my comics colors bright and saturated. It's b&w reprints of things that I can't stand.

FWIW, I left a little summary of different reprint options as a comment on the last blog, for those who still don't own this one.

Untold Story is from 1983, so the roundtable has an extra layer of tragic pathos with everyone involved going "Well, one thing's for sure, she is DEAD and not coming back, and that's final!"

The Masterworks I have are recolored, occasionally rather insensitively (blank yellow background becomes blank pink background - why?). This seems to vary based on which recolorer is at work, though - some of the issues look just fine.

The most disappointing reprint series that we'll get to in our project is the New Mutants Classic series, which are really bare-bones, and kind of disrespectfully sloppy in that the cover will be like "CLAREMONT - MCLEOD" even though four of the issues inside were pencilled by Sal Buscema. Little things, but annoying. But the comics are great.

yeah I'm psyched for all the off-shoots as well!!!

can i just say that i love the drubbing of misogynist byrne in contrast to the relatively-open-minded claremont in the latest blog?

Hey, thanks! Sooner or later we'll swing back around and give Claremont more of a talking-to on gender stuff, but generally I think, as David said, he deserves more credit than he gets. Being a great draftsman apparently buys Byrne more wiggle room than Claremont being (in the last 15-20 years) a hack storyteller, and that seems sort of unfair. Especially when you read interviews...you get the sense of this guy who's maybe not THAT on the cusp of social revolution or whatever, but is at least TRYING to be a sensitive forward thinker, and he's just surrounded by an old boy's club. At least that's the vibe I get. It'd be really interesting to get some insight from say, Louise Jones and Ann Nocenti about working with him versus the rest of the office. It might not gibe with my reading at all, but I wonder.

(Next installment should be up tonight or tomorrow btw!)

awesome!!

byrne seems a total cock btw

claremont used to proudly show off at comic conventions a sketchbook he'd collected where he'd got just abt every comic book artist you can think of to draw him a nudey pic of storm, so his 'enlightenment' over byrne is v v relative, imho

here's a page from a recent xmen comic by new man chris and milo manara:

http://comiczine-fa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/XGalsdisco1.jpg

o_0

but still, john byrne seems a truly unpleasant, reactionary, libertarian dickhole.

claremont used to proudly show off at comic conventions a sketchbook he'd collected where he'd got just abt every comic book artist you can think of to draw him a nudey pic of storm, so his 'enlightenment' over byrne is v v relative, imho

Regardless of anecdotes like this, I agree that when it comes to his writing, he really did do a lot to make female superheroes full-fledged rounded individuals, and not just supportive characters, the "ladies of the team". How many superhero writers did that before him? And you have to remember, even during the 80s you had stories like the East Coast/West Coast Avengers crossover, where various Avengers have to figh each other one-on-one, and in each fight the male character beats the female character - even when it's kinda ridiculous, like Captain America beating She-Hulk.

Also, in Marvel comics before Claremont's X-Men, the female superheroes were often relegated to the roles of wives and girlfriends for more prominent male superheroes. During Claremont's prime years with X-Men, only Kitty and Jean were dating a male team member, and both of them were more prominent than their boyfriends.

claremont also always treated racial matters with a lot of sensitivity

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/44215_10150097347974199_602254198_7403031_5745209_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/248719_10150318406954199_602254198_9873298_1074945_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/25773_435405234198_602254198_5589029_2836794_n.jpg

new men like nude women too

why is everyone orgy-dancing & Storm is getting arrested by evil Errol Flynn? it's her party is it not???

One last post before I skip town for a while! Enjoy!

manara really can only draw one woman's face, can't he?

have a good summer Doc! thx for the awesome blog!

xp tbf he draws faces?!

Thank YOU, DAM! Peace!

Doc -

is Kangarat Murder Society dead? We miss you! I know you've been super busy, but figured I'd call you out here instead of twitter.

^

x3

Yeah, loved reading those, give us some more!

Awwwwww, y'all are great! And yeah..this is better, I don't use twitter or know if anybody says anything about us on there(?).

It's NOT dead - this has just been a wacky, um... six months. Wow. Didn't really expect it would be that kind of hiatus (I guess all dormant bloggers say that)...

I have genuine, actual hopes of reviving it after the new year! For real! Keep the fire burning.

Thanks Doc! Can't wait for more to come.

The n-word stuff upthread is a bit of a headfuck.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/book-news/comics/article/49499-x-men-writer-chris-claremont-donates-archive-to-columbia-university.html

doc, damn, just saw this, sounds like the blog woulda been just what i wanna read but the link dont work, anywhere else to check out the stuff?

http://kangaratmurdersoc.wordpress.com/ is the direct link, not sure what's up with the domain. Hope you like!

Paging Doctor Casino:

http://daviduzumeri.tumblr.com/post/45140694544/any-chance-of-revisiting-the-uncanny-x-men-chats-with