latepassapedia: records that were light years better the ones indie dudes eventually endorsed as classics

Boris has so many good records

okay, touche, i am serious dude getting all butthurt. that's kinda my thing. but man, i am SO fucking sick of indies and hipsters lolling at indies and hipsters, acting like their super hipster indie shit don't stink. it's like when goth kids claim not to be goth in one breath and in the next tell you why those kids over there "aren't really gothic." gah, makes me wanna kill.

flight of the behemoth is such a perfect example. if you wore out a tape of the grimmrobe demos or snagged a prerelease copy of 00 void off anderson, then sure, you get a bonus plaque. otherwise, you're just in there with the pack, picking up on shit as it picks up fans.

lol this thread reminds me of some *insightful opinions* i was having today re the concept of "indie guilt." Kindof occurs to me that other genres dont really have this problem where they disown the genre they are fans of as being for lamewads (i mean there is in-genre fighting and the resulting factioning of like backpacker lame-os and like how ppl from europe dont understand the soul of disco or w/e).

I feel like indie is always really interested in neoromantic "year zero" narratives which is like a hangover from punk or something and maybe as a consequence of its magpie attitude to other genres, indie ppl seem to try and get some of this razed earth frission (via personal brand makeover) by jumping on board other genres. and also bc of the kind of territorial pissing that we saw on the the-dream thread, ppl naturally think that "being there first" w/ music makes them realer fans (and obv. that kind of authenticity is gonna be important to anybody whos trying not to look like they were really into grizzly bear a couple weeks ago) and i think the interaction b/w these two characteristics one of gen. music nerds and one more spec. of indie fans is gonna make threads like this a dishearteningly inevitable reality omg blech

but yeah, boris has records. i came it @ akuma no uta. what's that make me? (an indie rocker.)

indie guilt realness fetish = rockism eating its own entrails

Pretty sure that me and j0rd attempting to have a civilized convo about some albums that fit a common pattern says way less about "indie guilt" than the people who instantly get MEGA-BUTTHURT about this thread and start opining about out psychological makeup

http://www.ssplprints.com/lowres/43/main/33/111929.jpg

― Cars and Freedom (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 30 January 2011 21:29 (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^is this guy racking out a line or

artists where indie ppl were right on it

- t.i.

― lilwayne.quizrewards4u.com (J0rdan S.), Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:04 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

waht

like all that shit about flag-planting and "I WAS THERE FIRST" and our "ground-level" hipness is stuff other people are projecting on to this thread.

i think this could have been posed in a less INDIE INTERNAL DEBATE/WARFARE way, like, 'critics were late on these artists,' in a way that doesnt exclude like rap critics or whatever

do you have any good examples?

trynna dice us up into little groups

i dont give a shit when 'indie kids' got up on something but i am kind of interested in when critical discourse comes around to come artists & what moves those artists have to make to get that attention

cool, do you have any good examples?

three-6 mafia

Pretty sure that me and j0rd attempting to have a civilized convo about some albums that fit a common pattern says way less about "indie guilt" than the people who instantly get MEGA-BUTTHURT about this thread and start opining about out psychological makeup

― url sweatshirt (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:57 PM (4 minutes ago)

lol i wasnt getting butthurt at all but this is crazy disingenuous given the thread title was this changed afterwards or what bc i mean i only got here recently i cant claim i was here at the beginning.

This thread isn't about indie guilt.

The only real difference with "indie dudes" vis a vis dudes of any other genre is that indie dudes are confident they know what the best thing is in every genre. That's not because of "razed earth frission" or "year zero narratives" really (though sometimes it can involve those things), it's because the indie sensibility is much less tenuously tied to any particular sound or style.

Also "indie kids" and "critical discourse" are so overlapping as to be almost interchangeable.

Which is why this thread can function, whereas it'd be a lot harder to talk about "records that were light years better than the ones hip hop dudes eventually endorsed as classics" - if there is a rap canon of rock classics it's certainly much less well-known and much less widely articulated and disseminated.

i'm not really peeved and have nothing against you personally, whiney, but this thread is a snub, straight up. worse, there's a smugness about its positioning, re: "indie dudes." plus it's such an easy and tired target. make a parallel thread about rock records that hip hop heads were comically late in catching onto. that's be great.

yeah if only rap critics were dominating the critical discourse

that's seriously on some "start a WHITE HISTORY MONTH thread"

#9. The National - "Bloodbuzz, Ohio"
#9. The National - "Bloodbuzz, Ohio"
#9. The National - "Bloodbuzz, Ohio"
#9. The National - "Bloodbuzz, Ohio"
#9. The National - "Bloodbuzz, Ohio"
#9. The National - "Bloodbuzz, Ohio"

indie dudes are confident they know what the best thing is in every genre.

Also "indie kids" and "critical discourse" are so overlapping as to be almost interchangeable.

no. indie dudes are no more guilty of this than anyone else. and it's unnecessarily hostile to phrase it that way. i would say that indies are curious about, excited about and engaged with a bunch of different genres.

if indie tastes dominate the critical discourse, that's a legit issue, but there are better ways to address it.

idk tim i disagree bc i think that it is about indie guilt because it comes from the place where guys are using their knowledge of other genres to 1-up other indie guys where going *outside* the genre and not staying w/n a lame latepass indie consensus is seen as being unhip. so staying w/n the indie canon of received info is not as authentic as going outside it.

u sound bhurt for sure

@Tim F yeah i was doing an uncharacteristic 'avoiding trolling bhurt indie heads' post

more than like "rap critics & indie critics have equal weight in the discourse" which obv i dont agree w/

whiney you are a savant at sucking any joy out of liking music, it's something to be proud of.

xpost, me too

The only real difference with "indie dudes" vis a vis dudes of any other genre is that indie dudes are confident they know what the best thing is in every genre.

lol u really believe this is true

like, he did kinda frame it as a one-upping thing which gets ppl all mad doggie. im w/ the general gist that critics tend to jump on late, esp when it comes to non-critic-focused music

yeah if only rap critics were dominating the critical discourse

that's seriously on some "start a WHITE HISTORY MONTH thread"

rap critics are dominating the critical discourse wr2 rap albums and the dedicated rap audience, imo. that mainstream (and often indie-friendly) critics mediate the intersection of rap and mainstream (indie-friendly) audiences seems perfectly reasonable to me.

and i'm not saying that you should start such a thread, but if we can't turn the game around like that, then there's some baggage in this thread that isn't being honestly addressed.

idk this kindof feels really similar to ppl who try to go on holidays to authentic nontouristy places because the mark of authenticity is seeing other ppl who look like them there. i mean this feels p. paradigmatic of what indie guilt is.

there isnt really a 'rap discourse' being dominated by anyone. its super-balkanized

Look, guys. Let me set some things straight here. J0rdan really called me out on my latepassness of The-Dream the other day, and I went and (re?)visted that album and realized it was great. I am happier to have that album in my life. I kind of was hoping this thread could provide more examples of these records (ie, I've never heard the first High On Fire record!) and maybe provide a guide (for others and myself) to great records overshadowed by the latepassness of the critical discourse (yes, it's dominantely indie... SHOCKAH) that often praises records that fit into a narrative or misses good genre stuff the first time around.

Yes, OBVIOUSLY, it's a snarky way of saying it. But I wish people would listen to The Bug's Pressure and Fucked Up's Hidden World because they are dope albums

deej super otm in this thread

Spiritualized, Lazer Guided Melodies

what rap discourse does exist is often hyper self conscious about the opinions of assertive indie dude critics, thus lames like 2dopeboyz having awful opinions hating anything vaguely non-traditionalist or vaguely 'positive,' or passion of the weiss being half-post-dubstep / trip hop / indie coverage & half rap

im w/ the general gist that critics tend to jump on late, esp when it comes to non-critic-focused music

― *kl0p* (deej), Sunday, January 30, 2011 5:12 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

aka, this thread is for the non-critic-focused music (aka things other than INDIE ROCK in the 00s) that got looked over. everyone stop being so fuckin wahhmbulance that i insulted the shitty clipse record

"critics aint live it they clueless theyre following your lead when they're bumping your music" - T.I.

the first part of that verse is "they criticized too $hort cuz he rapped slow / me for sellin blow and eazy e for being hardcore" so you can add them to the list

critics tend to jump on late, esp when it comes to non-critic-focused music

generalist critics are always and will always be late simply because they're trying to canvas the entire field. they're not out there in all the world's clubs watching microgenres develop, watching bands & artists in every local scene around the world come up. they might be intimately engaged with one or two niches, but they can't catch everything, so they inevitably catch up. this is fine. there's nothing wrong with it.

the only people who are ever gonna find anything lolsome abt it are weird rockists who think that their engagement with the music is somehow realer and better than everybody else's.

turquoise jeep - wifey boo

who are critics even now

i wonder if its indie guilt that makes ppl think vocalcity is better than present lover

thats my contribution btw

and nice save, whiney, but you can't give a thread a title like this and just dive in with the examples without expecting some backlash.

who are critics even now

i wonder if its indie guilt that makes ppl think vocalcity is better than present lover

thats my contribution btw

― Lamp, Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:20 PM (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha. im w/ you on luomo

generalist critics are always and will always be late simply because they're trying to canvas the entire field.

Cool, we agree. Can we post some albums?

turquoise jeep - wifey boo

― Tuomagotchi (crüt), Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wait are u saying this is better than 'smang it' cuz :-/

yes

Metallica - Master of Puppets

lolling @ curtis