a thread about the civil unrest in egypt (& elsewhere in 'the region' if necessary)

No way is foreign policy a motivating factor here in the slightest. We are just bystanders here and should mostly bystand for fear of contaminating whatever good things might emerge.

They're not directly anti-American, but isn't one complaint that Mubarak is too pro American? And certainly too pro-Israel? (Which can be read as pro-American?)

x-post The vast majority of people everywhere are very friendly and nice.

Indeed, yes. Supporting the coup that blocked the elections there was one of the West's great mistakes.

JiC - I think, yes, that people do reckon that if the Islamists had to govern then people would become disenchanted with them. Or maybe they would be really good at governing and everyone would love them. Or whatever.

I think Ergodan is not governing as part of a coalition, but I am open to correction on this.

I don't really think that Egypt's position wrt the US is really an issue here compared to domestic corruption, poverty, massive inequality etc.

Al Jazeera live feed is amazing btw

my last post was an XPost to something.

x-post Really? I bet they can muster a percentage of malcontents equal to that of Egypt. But then, Russia seems to be going through a transitional phase.

putin's approval rating was higher than any leader on the planet. medvedev's is lower, but most russians know putin's in charge anyway.

obv there are plenty of malcontents in russia! but no the country as a whole really, really likes him. i kind of wrote about why here (putin doesn't actually get mentioned haha, but after crushing the oligarchs and all the tough talk to chechan/islamic terrorists, his status is a function of the same phenom.)

sorry total thread derail. i am actually ashamed of how little i know about the egypt/yemen/everywhereelse situation, even though i've been trying to follow it.

AKP/ergodan holds a majority in turkey, yes, but theyre hardly hardliners.

Police firing tear gas into a crowd while they're prostrate for prayers seems like a stupid move. (via aljazeera feed)

army opening fire

not good

oh shit

No way is foreign policy a motivating factor here in the slightest. We are just bystanders here and should mostly bystand for fear of contaminating whatever good things might emerge.

― Ismael Klata, Friday, January 28, 2011 6:52 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

OTFM

Muslim Brotherhood, Baradei under house arrest

would guess that Mubarak's speech is gonna be of the "I am not going to step down, return to your homes, protestors will be shot"

variety

Clinton calling for Mubarak to restrain security forces and for protestors to be peaceful, respect freedom of information/expression. (real message: US not gonna save ya Mubarak)

i wouldn't be so sure. if mubarak survives, well, here we are

right

but he'll have to figure out how to survive on his own

Police firing tear gas into a crowd while they're prostrate for prayers seems like a stupid move. (via aljazeera feed)

Wow that's really fucking dumb. That's the sort of image that goes right round the world.

yeah that's already all over my facebook wall.

When do the neocons swoop in and start taking credit for all this

― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, January 28, 2011 10:41 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark

they already have:

http://greatsatansgirlfriend.blogspot.com/2011/01/aflame.html

military armored personnel carriers in Alexandria

Police firing tear gas into a crowd while they're prostrate for prayers seems like a stupid move. (via aljazeera feed)

I think that was just previously fired tear gas floating around...? there was a pretty distinct break in gunfire/noise while the prayers were going on and then as soon as they were over everything erupted again

not surprised about the neocons lol

what i saw/heard was that the police fired tear gas canisters into the prostrate protestors just before prayers ended, whereupon one of the protestors just threw them back at the police...?

Mubarak will no doubt barter with the State Department about getting the Ferdinand Marcos treatment.

AP saying the foreign ministry is occupied/under attack

dudes not to sound too bilderbergy here or anything, but the state department talk about supporting the rights of the egyptian people and the hopes and dreams of the protestors is crafted for your ears, not mubarak's

Which is why the statements pale beside the back channel shit that's no doubt going on.

The 2010 legislative elections vote-rigging has hurt the NDP and Mubarak's legitimacy pretty badly.

eh, we'll see

xp

It looks to me as if Clinton is angling for a negotiated departure by Mubarak, accompanied by an increase in political freedom. I think the US is aiming to structure the solution in a way that would protect its key interests: the peace treaty with Israel, the Suez canal, and co-operation against terrorism.

from the graun

that makes sense

Beeb reporting protestors are trying to break into the main TV and radio building

police van torched

this is terrifying

woman on al-jazeera reporting 3 deaths, incl 14 year old boy

I was in Cairo in 2007 and all I can think right now is that, added to the pollution they always have, with fires now raging and tear gas all over the place, the air must be really awful.

protesters trying to swarm ministry of foreign affairs, apparently

:)

huh Al Jazeera also reporting that protesters have been welcoming of the military in various places - which is a good sign, I think. if the protesters get the military on their side, Mubarak is fucked.

The Egyptian military, famously, haven't fired on the people in generations.

well looks like they're moving in to secure the Foreign Ministry, Ministry of Information, etc so we'll see how this goes

Sky pointing out that the US spends $1.3bn a year on the egyptian military. They can't fire on the people, that ought to mean.

Pretty sure Egypt is the biggest if not second biggest recipient of US foreign aid

(it's second)

Ah yes second biggest. Viva Israel.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-egypts-day-of-reckoning-2196751.html

hillary right now tellin egypt to TURN THAT INTERNET BACK ON