Yes, Among The Believers. Should've clarified that I was talking about 79 not 09.
Also, there will be a struggle within the mb as to the direction it will take - being an organisation defined by its islamism, I would expect the more extreme elements to prevail, simply because if they do manage to co-opt mass support that's not going to be support for liberal democracy. Why would it be? People with that as a priority will be looking elsewhere.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:49 (thirteen years ago) link
x-post Really? I bet they can muster a percentage of malcontents equal to that of Egypt. But then, Russia seems to be going through a transitional phase.
The question, then, is whether Egypt et al. are willing to go the full crackdown, and then if they do, whether they can survive the reaction. Unlike the relatively isolated and very hardline Iran, Egypt doesn't appear to have to same degree of control over, say, outside influences, let alone its own people.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:51 (thirteen years ago) link
I would be extremely skeptical of any US news source portraying these protesters as anti-American and/or Muslim extremists. Clearly the demands are all pretty in line with democratic ideals and the kind of shit the US should be publicly rooting for.
I was in Egypt in 2006 or so on a school trip and had plenty of first-hand experience with the people, tho yeah as an American tourist in the more populated areas. Egypt is overwhelmingly Muslim, and this was smack in the middle of the Iraq War and Bush's 2nd term, and everyone I talked to had nothing but good things to say about America and Americans, even in the midst of all that. The most extreme they got was saying "We love America, we love Americans, we just don't like Bush". Now this probably has a lot to do with the fact that tourism is THE business in Egypt, and why on Earth would you badmouth someone you were trying to sell trinkets to.
Nonetheless, yes there were extremists out in the desert and stories of anti-American sentiments in the rural areas, but the vast, vast majority of people in Cairo and Luxor and Aswan were all very friendly and very nice.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:52 (thirteen years ago) link
No way is foreign policy a motivating factor here in the slightest. We are just bystanders here and should mostly bystand for fear of contaminating whatever good things might emerge.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:52 (thirteen years ago) link
They're not directly anti-American, but isn't one complaint that Mubarak is too pro American? And certainly too pro-Israel? (Which can be read as pro-American?)
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:53 (thirteen years ago) link
x-post The vast majority of people everywhere are very friendly and nice.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Indeed, yes. Supporting the coup that blocked the elections there was one of the West's great mistakes.
JiC - I think, yes, that people do reckon that if the Islamists had to govern then people would become disenchanted with them. Or maybe they would be really good at governing and everyone would love them. Or whatever.
I think Ergodan is not governing as part of a coalition, but I am open to correction on this.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't really think that Egypt's position wrt the US is really an issue here compared to domestic corruption, poverty, massive inequality etc.
― Matt DC, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Al Jazeera live feed is amazing btw
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:54 (thirteen years ago) link
my last post was an XPost to something.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link
putin's approval rating was higher than any leader on the planet. medvedev's is lower, but most russians know putin's in charge anyway.
obv there are plenty of malcontents in russia! but no the country as a whole really, really likes him. i kind of wrote about why here (putin doesn't actually get mentioned haha, but after crushing the oligarchs and all the tough talk to chechan/islamic terrorists, his status is a function of the same phenom.)
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link
sorry total thread derail. i am actually ashamed of how little i know about the egypt/yemen/everywhereelse situation, even though i've been trying to follow it.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:56 (thirteen years ago) link
AKP/ergodan holds a majority in turkey, yes, but theyre hardly hardliners.
― max, Friday, 28 January 2011 16:56 (thirteen years ago) link
Police firing tear gas into a crowd while they're prostrate for prayers seems like a stupid move. (via aljazeera feed)
― earnest goes to camp, ironic goes to ilm (pixel farmer), Friday, 28 January 2011 16:59 (thirteen years ago) link
army opening fire
not good
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:03 (thirteen years ago) link
oh shit
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:04 (thirteen years ago) link
― Ismael Klata, Friday, January 28, 2011 6:52 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
OTFM
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Muslim Brotherhood, Baradei under house arrest
would guess that Mubarak's speech is gonna be of the "I am not going to step down, return to your homes, protestors will be shot"
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:07 (thirteen years ago) link
variety
Clinton calling for Mubarak to restrain security forces and for protestors to be peaceful, respect freedom of information/expression. (real message: US not gonna save ya Mubarak)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:10 (thirteen years ago) link
i wouldn't be so sure. if mubarak survives, well, here we are
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:10 (thirteen years ago) link
right
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:11 (thirteen years ago) link
but he'll have to figure out how to survive on his own
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Wow that's really fucking dumb. That's the sort of image that goes right round the world.
― Matt DC, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:13 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah that's already all over my facebook wall.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:14 (thirteen years ago) link
When do the neocons swoop in and start taking credit for all this
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, January 28, 2011 10:41 AM (31 minutes ago) Bookmark
they already have:
http://greatsatansgirlfriend.blogspot.com/2011/01/aflame.html
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:15 (thirteen years ago) link
military armored personnel carriers in Alexandria
I think that was just previously fired tear gas floating around...? there was a pretty distinct break in gunfire/noise while the prayers were going on and then as soon as they were over everything erupted again
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:15 (thirteen years ago) link
not surprised about the neocons lol
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:16 (thirteen years ago) link
what i saw/heard was that the police fired tear gas canisters into the prostrate protestors just before prayers ended, whereupon one of the protestors just threw them back at the police...?
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Mubarak will no doubt barter with the State Department about getting the Ferdinand Marcos treatment.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:18 (thirteen years ago) link
AP saying the foreign ministry is occupied/under attack
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:19 (thirteen years ago) link
dudes not to sound too bilderbergy here or anything, but the state department talk about supporting the rights of the egyptian people and the hopes and dreams of the protestors is crafted for your ears, not mubarak's
― goole, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Which is why the statements pale beside the back channel shit that's no doubt going on.
― Rich Lolwry (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:22 (thirteen years ago) link
The 2010 legislative elections vote-rigging has hurt the NDP and Mubarak's legitimacy pretty badly.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
eh, we'll see
xp
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
It looks to me as if Clinton is angling for a negotiated departure by Mubarak, accompanied by an increase in political freedom. I think the US is aiming to structure the solution in a way that would protect its key interests: the peace treaty with Israel, the Suez canal, and co-operation against terrorism.
from the graun
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:25 (thirteen years ago) link
that makes sense
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Beeb reporting protestors are trying to break into the main TV and radio building
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:30 (thirteen years ago) link
police van torched
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:33 (thirteen years ago) link
this is terrifying
― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:34 (thirteen years ago) link
woman on al-jazeera reporting 3 deaths, incl 14 year old boy
I was in Cairo in 2007 and all I can think right now is that, added to the pollution they always have, with fires now raging and tear gas all over the place, the air must be really awful.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
protesters trying to swarm ministry of foreign affairs, apparently
― lextasy refix (lex pretend), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link
:)
― the realest shit i ever took (am0n), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:36 (thirteen years ago) link
huh Al Jazeera also reporting that protesters have been welcoming of the military in various places - which is a good sign, I think. if the protesters get the military on their side, Mubarak is fucked.
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:37 (thirteen years ago) link
The Egyptian military, famously, haven't fired on the people in generations.
― Le mépris vient de la tête, la haine vient du cœur (Michael White), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:43 (thirteen years ago) link
well looks like they're moving in to secure the Foreign Ministry, Ministry of Information, etc so we'll see how this goes
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:43 (thirteen years ago) link
Sky pointing out that the US spends $1.3bn a year on the egyptian military. They can't fire on the people, that ought to mean.
― Ismael Klata, Friday, 28 January 2011 17:49 (thirteen years ago) link
Pretty sure Egypt is the biggest if not second biggest recipient of US foreign aid
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:51 (thirteen years ago) link
(it's second)
― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 28 January 2011 17:52 (thirteen years ago) link