Metallica - C or D?

Based on conversations over the years, obviously 99% of the metal community disagrees with me here but its my view that they led to a) a massive humour bypass in metal, and b) they turned the riff from an overamped melodic chorus into dull thuderous chugging.

Without these 2 elements there isn't much left but an exercise in testosterone.

i much prefer sabbath or voivod.

By this time, I was well out of that crap and listening to bands who actually were into music rather than the dollar and beer and titties but when Metallica bought out that album where they collaborated with the New York Philharmonic, I really sat up. What the fuck was that about?

This was a band who used to go on and on about true metal. I had been at their concerts and sung along with the "metal up your ass" chant 15 million times, arms aloft.

Looking back at their career, you can see every decision is motivated by the dollar, worse, you can almost envisage the record execs telling the band that 'Justice' is their prog album, where they can rip the songs out for +8 minutes, OK... For fucks sake, they got Bob Rock, Bon Jovi's producer in for the Black Album. What does that tell you about their motivations???

They bought out a box set 'Live Shit Binge and Purge', a couple of pisspoor live CD's and a sticker, and it cost a year's salary. Metallica are in it for the money kids. They were always in it for the money. The mass male wanking sessions that their gigs are, is about money. Money money money money money. They are a joke.

Maybe that's a little harsh, in the light of the early stuff. Kill Em All is an OK garage rock album, Lightening has some interesting shit on it and Puppets is all thrash. But however much I might like Justice (not that much) the buck stops there. Virtually everything post Cliff Burton stinks. They lost their soul when their hippy bass player lost his life. Or rather, they sold their souls.

Metallica are bullshit. And funniest of all, when you see James in interviews now, you can sense he knows it too - look out for that little smirk.

Otherwise, it's back to writing self indulgent rubbish like the black album, and boring crap like AJFA

* heres my opinion on the napster issue.

There is no doubt in my mind that metallica work extremely hard and long to create and complete a song. anyone who has seen 'some kind of monter' will agree. therefore, when napster began stealing metallica's music and making it freely available, they were stealing what rightfully should have been metallica's hard earned money. the fact that metallica are loaded shouldn't change the fact that they had every right to sue. if you steal from a poor man it's a crime, and if you steal from a rich man its a crime.

cheers from ruuben

ride the lightning / master of puppets both have 4 or so amazing tunes - pretty much all the fast ones & a ballad a piece . the midtempo sludgefests and instrumentals suck

and justice - wthe production makes the whole thing pretty unlistenable...'one' is a good tune but MTV has killed it for me

the black album was great at the time but sounds kinds bloated to me now - but the song writing is good

don't bother with anything after that.

all the cover versions off garage days ep's suck excepting the awesome misfits mini medley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm7EeuWnc-8

ay ayyyyy ayyyyyyy ayyyyy

from 2007, apparently

Been watching a lot of stuff from the Mexico City DVD on YouTube, awesome stuff. Their records may have gone downhill, but they can still knock em out live. James' showmanship is ridiculously slick these days.

This is particularly good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U73UR5609gk&feature=fvw

I saw them in 1999 and they actually played a pretty good set. Played "Blackened" for the first time in 10 years, did a Master/Sanitarium medley....much better than the time I saw them in 1997.

think the best time to see them live (not knowing first hand) must have been between 1988-1990, the early bootlegs had the songs sped up so much they lost much of their articulation (though the RTL material survived the speeding up the best). Jaymz said this was due to Lars' nerves typically.

It's kind of interesting listening to Metallica bootlegs between 1991 and 1993 because you can hear his voice deteriorating in quality, and it corresponds largely to when he stopped seeing the vocal coach. and you can hear the yodeling start around 1993-1994, which was probably around the time or shortly after having nodes removed.

Metallica are also one of the sloppiest live bands I've ever heard but it doesn't ruin anything about the experience really.

Los Angeles, CA - March 7, 2012 - Metallica announced today they have tapped award-winning director Nimród Antal to direct the upcoming Metallica 3D feature film project. Charlotte Huggins (JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH, JOURNEY 2: THE MYSTERIOUS ISLAND) will produce.

The film will be a marriage of narrative and concert and will star the five members of Metallica: James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Kirk Hammett, Robert Trujillo, and the fans. It will begin shooting this August and will be released in the summer of 2013.

"I've been a fan of Nimróds since his first Hungarian film, Kontroll, showed up at Cannes in 2004 and blew everybody away, said Metallica's Lars Ulrich. "I've watched with excitement his career in Hollywood blossom over the last few years. Within five minutes of meeting him I was addicted to his enthusiasm, his take on the creative process and his "thinking outside of the box" personality. Let's get on with it!!!"

"Metallica has always been a huge part of my life, and it's an incredible opportunity when we get to work with our heroes," said Antal. "We are going to harness the powerful and almighty energy of Metallica's live shows, inject a narrative into it, and shoot it in 3D to elevate the entire experience."

the world needs this

will star the five members of Metallica: James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Kirk Hammett, Robert Trujillo, and the fans.

haha, another subtle fuck you to Newstead?

probably not

I know, but I honestly wouldn't put it past these guys.

great, mutton chops in 3D

watch Lars miss the beat UP CLOSE

pinch me

will star the three members of Metallica: James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich and those other guys.

cool:

http://cilekagaci.com/2011/11/30/metallica-on-stage/

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/interviews/interviews/steve_thompson_when_lars_asked_me_what_happened_to_the_bass_in__justice_i_wanted_to_cold_cock_him.html

I have a hard time taking that story at face value, given how long it took to come out and how "evil villain beard-stroking" it is.

really kinda don't care about what caused it at this point - though it will always lead to entertaining speculation so there's that.

My theory is it was more of a James/Lars collabo while Kirk sat in the corner listening to Erik SAtie on headphones

Gotta admit, the bass playing almost always sounds like an afterthought in tons of metal. Yeah, it's definitely there in dudes like Cliff and galloping along in Iron Maiden or Motorhead, but darned if I can think of what the bass even sounds like in Judas Priest or Slayer or other fast stuff or whatever.

yeah it's not a genre known for its bass. although i seem to recall some pretty neat licks in the odd megadeth song.

No wonder I don't like metal much. Imagine Sabbath without Geezer!!!!

!!! There's tons of great bass in metal. It largely depends as to what subgenre you're looking at here. and while there are many metal bands where you don't notice the bass I don't really think that's more true of metal than, basically, any other genre (other than maybe funk)

In Slayer, the bass is nondescript because Tom just doubles the guitars (he's not much of a bass player); same is true of Deicide for the same reasons (Glen sucks at it). but stuff like Death had tons of technical counterpoint bass riffs, Cryptopsy had this crazy 'boingy' bass sound that was a defining aspect of them in their prime...and the entire stoner/doom metal genre, you'll pretty much get written off as boring if you don't have a bass player that can do some interesting shit, ie Sleep. Alex Webster of Cannibal Corpse does some fun bass shit, hell there's any number of technical death bands that have crazy bass playing (ie Desecrativity). even black metal often has a lot of fun, simple catchy bass riffs (ie Mayhem's De Mysteriis, Emperor's Anthems, etc)

I mean yeah sure there are a lot of bands where the bass player is some schlub just doubling guitars but it's hardly something I'd say is 'default'

Maybe it's because the bass is so often distorted or fuzzed or in a lot of ways resembling another guitar, even if it's not doubling the guitars? I know there are exception to everything, but for the longest time metal has seemed really ruled by guitarists and killer drummers, with the bass almost an afterthought.

The thing with ...And Justice For All is that it doesn't just lack bass guitar, it lacks bass frequency. There's countless metal tracks where the bass is doubling what the guitars play and blends in with the overall sound so that you can't pick it out, but at least the bass is EQ'd so it occupies the lower end of the sound spectrum.

It's weird that they don't remix it. It might actually sell them a few albums.

Yeah, I'm surprised that they haven't remixed it. After all, if the bass guitar is present on the master tapes and the weird sound of ...And Justice For All is down to the weird mixing/EQ'ing, then it's possible that someone could go in there and make it sound better. I suspect that Ulrich or Hetfield have some kind of weird reason for not doing it, though.

The band owns their entire back catalogue now, and is in the process of starting a massive reissue/remaster campaign. So I'm hoping Justice will be given a significant spruce-up.

I sort of like the sterility of Justice's mix, it fits in with the gothic songwriting. I grew up with it sounding that way anyhow, it would be really strange to hear a new version of such familiar music.

I can only assume that they'll reissue Justice with lots of re-recorded fixes, new vocal tracks including a new voiceover on "To Live Is To Die" from the late Lou Reed, and the St Anger snare sound Protooled in.

Agree with chap; Justice sounds how it's supposed to sound. To me it fits just fine alongside other sterile, ultra-dry art-thrash albums of the era - Prong's Beg to Differ, Coroner, etc. I'm interested in a reissue if it comes with, say, contemporaneous liveage, but not if it's "now with bass, so you crybaby fucks will leave us alone."

I'd be happy with a 2CD edition: original mix on CD 1, remixed edition on CD 2. For what it's worth, I don't mind the way ...And Justice For All sounds as it is, but I'd still be interested in hearing a remixed, fuller-sounding version.

Because of bass talk, xposting myself from the Rolling Metal thread: Scott Clendenin, bassist on Death's final album The Sound of Perseverance passed away yesterday; his performance on said album is one of the reasons it sounds so phenomenal.

http://loudwire.com/former-death-bassist-scott-clendenin-dies-at-47/

Be sure to play that live clip embedded in Richard Christy's tweet. Wicked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=22&v=Xui06jwWaAM

So weird. What have I been doing wrong? Anyway, it's "Master of Puppets" with the snare sound replaced by the "St. Anger" snare sound.

It's that t= part, and you beat me by 23 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xui06jwWaAM

oh dear lord

Now replace the the snare with duck quacks and I'll be doubly impressed.

sounds like you're cranking Puppets in your bedroom and your dad is banging on the door with his fist to get you to turn it down.

is there any group of superfans that appears to hate the band they supposedly like more than Metallica?

haha good question.

Kiss, Van Halen, GNR...

weezer.

I've seen three Metallica shirts in the airport this morning, all worn by children.

And Naptime for All

is there a good Metallica biography out there?

https://www.metallica.com/store/metallica-clue/CLUE.html

the fuck? what's the solution, "the bus driver did it with the bus in the bus?"

are there other collabos coming out, like Vince Neil's Monopoly, where every space reads "Go Directly to Jail"?

― Cool Im An Situation (Neanderthal), Saturday, November 27, 2021 2:54 PM bookmarkflaglink

me and playwright/performer TJ Dawe collaborated parodying this game in this goofy little article in Points in Case:

https://www.pointsincase.com/articles/metallicas-clue-and-other-metal-board-games

watching them now. kind of shaky, but James has been pretty self deprecating. even made a st. anger joke.

he did that when I saw them last year

I'm waiting for the moment where he lets the veil drop and he starts blaming people for songs/albums he supposedly retroactively doesn't like anymore, on stage.

"here's a piece of shit called King Nothing, which I wasn't gonna play but Kirk begged me to use one of his songs"

yeah, it's all very by the books tonight.

Lars puts in the most effort with the least results.

lol they used Stranger Things clips for "Master of Puppets."

his voice sounds really good though imo!

& i stan a sequined guitar hero love u kirk <3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap0uhhvci_w

Wow. I admit that I've always had the hardest time feeling the beat in the right place on Fight Fire with Fire, it's so fast and something about that riff with the accents on the upbeats, I always hear it flipped:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=407ZR9Wkyew

I also I was listening to an interview with Nate Wood, a ridiculous jazz drummer/bassist/guitarist and a true musician's musicians, and it was very satisfying to hear him express his unabashed Lars love.

I have that same problem with that song!

I was at that show, up in the rafters. When I heard the classical guitar intro piping in I went bonkers. Now I've Seen 'Em All - Fight Fire With Fire, Battery, and Blackened (2 times, and unfortunately my least favorite of the classic first tracks)

where's that ate Wood interview where he talks Lars? sounds interesting

*Nate Wood

Will they hang it up when Lars can't physically do the tours anymore, or will they use a replacement drummer?

please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96nV-x3jfLg

I've often wondered if Lars has been dealing with some sort of back issues over the years, I know it's showmanship of sorts, but he stands up at every given opportunity, perhaps he's trying to relieve some stress on his lower back or butt.

Here's the Nate Wood interview, starts comparing Lars to Elvin Jones at about 1:06.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9gh6eay4R4

Haha, I guess they won't - although I'm reading this was a one-off medical emergency kind of thing. Lombardo is no spring chicken himself anyway.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/music/after-years-of-heavy-playing-older-drummers-feel-toll-on-health/article33175055/

In that same Nate Wood podcast he talks about singers who got voice lessons in their 30s and kept their voices into their 70s, vs ones who didn't and can barely sing at all. I think it's similar with drummers, any kind of tension and non-ergonomic setup is going to have cumulative damage over time, especially if you're touring.

If you watch live Slayer footage you can see Lombardo doing the mid-song stretching out thing too, keeps the muscles supple I guess. No-one quite beats John Stanier's high crash cymbal technique though. See Phil Collins for an example of poor drum posture leading to nerve damage.

I always figured the standing up thing is just because everyone else gets to stand up and the drummer is always hidden behind the drums, more of a showpersonship thing.

yeah, plus he has been doing that for decades, so that would scan. there was an ep of Beavis and Butthead where they showed For Whom the Bell Tolls from the Black album tour and Beavis kept yelling at Lars to quit standing up and sit down and play the drums like he was supposed to.