To me this is so far wide of the mark that it completely misses what early-Ramones are all about. The analogies with Brill building and early 60's girlpop songcraft has been trotted out so often wrt The Ramones that it's tempting to dismiss it out-of-hand. There is some truth in it though - I can hear the Shangri-La's, say, in I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend or Babysitter. That's not to say that this automatically makes the Ramones good, of course.
But they're better than good - they're masters. Their best songs are great because they are lean and simple - there's nothing that shouldn't be there. Couple this with a simple melodic hook(nothing fancy - 4 chords max. and another 2 for the middle 8) and a propulsive beat, and you have something irresistable. Add some elements of The Ramones 'own world' imagery (pick from : NY street images, retards, 'nam casualties, glue, girls)and you have genius.
Take "Glad to see you Go" from Leave Home - straight into a Beach Boys/Eddie Cochrane morphed melody and just listen to the way that the song shifts gear slightly on lines 3 and 4 of the verse as Tommy closes the high-hat a touch under the chords and melody. The shift into the chorus is sublime and the sheer rush as it comes back to the last verse from the middle 8 ("I need somebody good, I need a miracle") is like a ride in the space shuttle - on the outside.
Take "Rockaway Beach" - another point on the curve linking "Summer in the City", " Dancing in the Street" and "Baby on more Time". Again - great chorus, great lyrics ("Chewin out a rhythm on my bubblegum") and a sense of PLACE. In less than 3 minutes you feel exactly what it's like to be a teenager in baking hot NY - and you feel it every single time you hear it. That's great songwriting, Pinefox.
Rockaway, Glad..., Listen to My Heart, 53rd and 3rd, You Should Never Have Opened That Door are equals of "Please, Please Me", "California Girls", "My Generation" ..... the list goes on....if you can look past the "punk" thing which is really a red herring as far as The Ramones are concerned.
I guess it all depends on what you look for in a song - they're not Burt or Jimmy Webb, but they tell a story, crank up the adrenaline, and make their own world for 3 mins for EVERY SINGLE TRACK on the first 4 albums. That's classic.
― Dr. C, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― alex in nyc, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
I am still not particularly convinced about the overall point. In fact, come to think of it, I'm not at all convinced. But to be reasonable about this, I'm going to have to leave it till I've listened to the Ramones again.
― the pinefox, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Mike Hanle y, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― gareth, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― duane, Monday, 16 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
But, Dr.C makes such a good case for Da Ramones that I'm thinking of checking them out again.
But part2, Jason makes a very interesting point that almost gets buried: the puritanism of much punk. I feel it's a key to why I don't like much of the stuff (although most of the time I think of punk as anorexic - no bottom ;) Will go up on the mountain and meditate on this insight.
― Omar, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Which kind of explains why I like so few American bands. Seems that whatever genre they work in, there's always that wide Rock streak that suffuses it all and kind of obliterates whatever else they're trying to do.
― CountV/John T, Wednesday, 18 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Josh, Wednesday, 18 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
OH-OH-I-LOVE-HER-SO-O-OH.
― bob snoom, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Dr. C, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
So I went to see what I thought was going to be a bunch of dodgy old punks on Saturday night and ended up seeing a dodgy old Scottish Ramones (this is a good thing).
Then I told my son (Mark, 5 and three quarters) that "Brian's band sound like the Ramones" and his jaw dropped and he said "THE RAMONES? REALLY? COOL!" and I think it's cool as fuck that my kid thinks it's cool that someone his dad knows is in a band that sounds a wee bit like The Ramones.
Then I listened to It's Alive this morning on the way to work and it reasserted itself as not only the best live album ever, but possibly one of the BEST ANYTHINGS EVER!
C.L.A.S.S.I.C.
Anyway, Weird Tales of the Ramones, anyone got it yet and want to tell me why I really need to buy it regardless of what I already own?
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 22 August 2005 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Soukesian, Monday, 22 August 2005 16:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 22 August 2005 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jim Reckling (Jim Reckling), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 22 April 2006 02:09 (seventeen years ago) link
This is looking pretty classic:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ramones-Its-Alive-1974-1996/dp/B000EGEVZK
Finally, the It's Alive footage on DVD, with about, er, 100 other tracks!
DVD1: ------- CBGB New York, NY (9/15/74) Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue I Don't Wanna Go Down To The Basement Judy Is A Punk
Max’s Kansas City New York, NY (4/18/76) I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend 53rd and 3rd
The Club Cambridge, MA (5/12/76) Chain Saw
Max’s Kansas City New York, NY (10/8/76) Havana Affair Listen To My Heart
My Father’s Place Roslyn, NY (4/13/77) I Remember You Carbona Not Glue
CBGB New York, NY (6/11/77) Blitzkrieg Bop Sheena Is A Punk Rocker Beat On The Brat Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue Rockaway Beach Cretin Hop Oh Oh I Love Her So Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World
The Second Chance Ann Arbor, MI (6/26/77) Rockaway Beach Carbona Not Glue
The Ivanhoe Theater Chicago, IL (7/6/77) Pinhead Suzy Is A Headbanger
The Armadillo Austin, TX (7/14/77) Early Show Commando I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend
The Armadillo Austin, TX (7/14/77) Late Show Now I Wanna Be A Good Boy 53rd & 3rd Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World
Liberty Hall Houston, TX (7/15/77) Loudmouth I Remember You Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment
Liberty Hall Houston, TX (7/16/77) Oh Oh I Love Her So Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World
Don Kirshner’s Rock Concert L.A., CA (8/9/77) Loudmouth Judy Is A Punk Glad To See You Go Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment
The Camera Mart Stages New York, NY (9/3/77) Swallow My Pride Pinhead Sheena Is A Punk Rocker
It’s Alive, The Rainbow Theatre London (12/31/77) Blitzkrieg Bop I Wanna Be Well Glad To See You Go You're Gonna Kill That Girl Commando Havana Affair Cretin Hop Listen To My Heart I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You Pinhead Do You Wanna Dance? Now I Wanna Be A Good Boy Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue We're A Happy Family
Bonus features: - Dee Dee and Joey - The Beginning (Interview) - Tommy - Forest Hills High School (Interview) - Danny Fields - Revelations (Interview) - Joey & Dee Dee - Influences (Interview) - Joey & Danny - Artistic Growth (Interview) - Violence? (Interview) - What is Punk? (Interview) - Tommy - How I learned to play drums and we got a record deal (Interview) - Dee Dee - Coffee And Cigarettes (Interview) - Johnny - Hard To Stop (Interview) - Argentina - The First Time (Interview) - Mandagsborgen (Interview) - Sha Na Na Shenanigans (Interview) - It's Not My Place (In The 9 To 5 World) (Video) - Somebody Put Something In My Drink (Rare Video) (Rough Cut) - Photo Galleries (Also Ramones fans got chance to send photos taken by them to the DVD).
DVD2: ------- Musikladen Bremen, Germany (9/13/78) Rockaway Beach Teenage Lobotomy Blitzkrieg Bop Don't Come Close I Don't Care She's The One Sheena Is A Punk Rocker Cretin Hop Listen To My Heart I Don't Wanna Walk Around With You Pinhead
The Old Grey Whistle Test London (9/19/78) Don't Come Close She's The One Go Mental
Top of the Pops London (9/28/78) Don't Come Close
Oakland, CA (12/28/78) I'm Against It Needles And Pins
San Francisco Civic Center, S.F., CA (6/9/79) I Want You Around I'm Affected California Sun
The Old Grey Whistle Test London (1/15/79 Rock 'N' Roll High School Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio?
Top of the Pops London (1/31/80) Baby I Love You
Sha Na Na L.A., CA (5/19/80) Rock 'N' Roll High School
Mandagsborsen Stockholm, Sweden (10/26/81) We Want The Airwaves
TVE Musical Express Madrid, Spain (11/17/81) This Business Is Killing Me All Quiet On The Eastern Front
US Festival San Bernardino, CA (9/3/82) Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio? Gimme Gimme Shock Treatment Rock 'N' Roll High School I Wanna Be Sedated Beat On The Brat The KKK Took My Baby Away Here Today, Gone Tomorrow Chinese Rocks Teenage Lobotomy
The Old Grey Whistle Test London (2/26/85) Wart Hog Chasing The Night
Obras Sanitarias, Buenos Aires, Argentina (2/3/87) Blitzkrieg Bop Freak Of Nature Crummy Stuff Love Kills I Don't Care Too Tough To Die Mama's Boy
Provinssirock Festival, Seinäjoki, Finland (6/4/88) I Don't Want You Anymore Weasel Face Garden Of Serenity I Just Want To Have Something To Do Surfin' Bird Cretin Hop Somebody Put Something In My Drink We're A Happy Family
R.I.T., Rochester, NY (10/8/88) Do You Remember Rock 'N' Roll Radio Wart Hog
Rolling Stone Club Milan, Italy (3/16/92) Psycho Therapy I Believe In Miracles I Wanna Live My Brain Is Hanging Upside Down (Bonzo Goes To Bitburg) Pet Sematary Animal Boy Pinhead
Top of the Pops London (6/29/95) I Don't Wanna Grow Up
River Plate Stadium, Buenos Aires, Argentina (3/16/96) I Wanna Be Sedated R.A.M.O.N.E.S. Blitzkrieg Bop
― StanM, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:53 (sixteen years ago) link
(also, LOL at those reviewers going on about this without looking up the tracklist)
― StanM, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:55 (sixteen years ago) link
Oof -- might have to pick this up.
― Alex in NYC, Monday, 27 August 2007 18:57 (sixteen years ago) link
wow, overkill but I gotta have it. love dr. c on this thread, can't believe i never read it before.
― fritz, Monday, 27 August 2007 19:10 (sixteen years ago) link
R.I.T., Rochester, NY (10/8/88)
hmm. i saw them there in may of either '88 or '89. but given their touring at the time i guess maybe they played there twice in a year.
― tipsy mothra, Monday, 27 August 2007 20:43 (sixteen years ago) link
OMG hello birthday present!
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 07:01 (sixteen years ago) link
The Dr. C breakdown of Ramones songcraft upthread just splattered my mind on the wall. So perfect.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 07:08 (sixteen years ago) link
Agreed. But the fact that he had to even MAKE that point makes me sad and frustrated. I'm all for skewering the sacred cows, but c'mon - how can anyone NOT like the fucking Ramones?? Possibly the most classic-est band evah!!! Upthread, all I see is more ILX Contrarian Rally nonsense...
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 09:22 (sixteen years ago) link
"Tell me son, what is minimalism?"
Ramones are a band that always sound tremendous when I'm out somewhere, but never feel the urge to listen to at home.
They're a sort of necessary blast of rudeness. But not when I'm in a comfy chair.....
― PhilK, Tuesday, 28 August 2007 19:31 (sixteen years ago) link
Does anyone have this yet? I ordered it online, expecting it any day now.
― StanM, Friday, 5 October 2007 09:35 (sixteen years ago) link
It's here! The box is very pink.
http://www.ramonesitsalivedvd.com/
― StanM, Friday, 5 October 2007 13:19 (sixteen years ago) link
I picked it up but it's a present for my brother-in-law so I haven't opened it. Looks really great, and my local record store has it on sale this week for $11 so I might just buy a copy for myself.
― EZ Snappin, Friday, 5 October 2007 15:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Just got it. I started with the archives, but I've gotta go to bed sometime so I used the handy menu to go straight to the 12/31/77 show.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Friday, 26 October 2007 05:51 (sixteen years ago) link
95% of the first disc and the tracks I like on the second one = ULTRA CLASSIC.
Second disc gets progressively more painful to watch. Especially Joey. And Marky's hair.
― StanM, Friday, 26 October 2007 06:10 (sixteen years ago) link
Finished the New Years '77 show and went on to the second DVD. This first thing from Bremenpalast or whatever is really good. But yeah, I'm afraid of what is to come.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Friday, 26 October 2007 06:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Looking forward to more Road To Ruin stuff, though.
― James Redd and the Blecchs, Friday, 26 October 2007 06:15 (sixteen years ago) link
I vote dud. I don't give bands any credit for being "influential," so they don't score points with me there. I just never feel like listening to those albums. Nobody I have ever known likes to play those albums. I find the music average at best, and the singing to be a real downer. Yeah, I guess I find the singing to be a big buzz kill. That said, I don't hate them that much, and maybe I even like 5-10 songs. I just find them closer to dud than to classic.
― nicky lo-fi, Friday, 26 October 2007 07:39 (sixteen years ago) link
You can't hate "It's Alive" the album though, or can you?
― StanM, Friday, 26 October 2007 07:45 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't hate the Ramones. I think I just like them best in small doses. Classic radio should play them a bit more. I never hear them played.
― nicky lo-fi, Friday, 26 October 2007 07:59 (sixteen years ago) link
Those first three albums ALWAYS SOUND AMAZING. Doesn't matter where you are, what you're doing, or how you feel. They fucking rule. How many albums in rock history can you say that about?
Bought the DVD but haven't had time to watch...can't wait!
― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Friday, 26 October 2007 08:11 (sixteen years ago) link
Great songwriters. A pity all of the arrangements on those first albums sound exactly the same though.
― Geir Hongro, Friday, 26 October 2007 09:58 (sixteen years ago) link
The Ramones are one of those "I can't trust the opinions of someone who doesn't like them" bands.
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 26 October 2007 10:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I like all their albums, even 'Halfway to Sanity' (search: "Go L'il Camaro Go"), and they def. had a quality surge at the end.
― Mike Dixn, Friday, 26 October 2007 14:56 (sixteen years ago) link
The Rainbow performance is so nostalgic on the DVD. I wasn't there, but it captures exactly how I remember how people looked in '77: the full cliche punk look, people wearing school ties and having the non-punk shortened fringe look, people with 70s long hair attending punk gigs.
And Joey look so vulnerable when he punches the air, moves around, or even just having trouble keeping up with the music at some points.
― Bob Six, Saturday, 17 November 2007 12:43 (sixteen years ago) link
How can a guy calling himself "Nicky Lo-Fi" not dig the Ramones 200%?
― If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Saturday, 17 November 2007 13:08 (sixteen years ago) link
LOL
― birdistheword, Monday, 9 May 2022 19:32 (one year ago) link
https://boingboing.net/2022/08/02/someone-sneaked-a-super-8-camera-into-a-1978-ramones-concert-and-was-able-to-record-for-13-minutes-before-he-got-caught.html
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Thursday, 4 August 2022 19:23 (one year ago) link
Pretty great!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 August 2022 19:44 (one year ago) link
With all the original members dead and all the albums canonized in box sets, deluxe editions, etc., etc., it's hard to imagine what their impact must have been when they were new. But imagine living in Kansas City in 1978 and that band comes through town. It would have been life-altering.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 4 August 2022 20:02 (one year ago) link
Oh, this is actual Kansas City! I just looked at the youtube title and assumed it was Max's Kansas City.
― peace, man, Thursday, 4 August 2022 21:33 (one year ago) link
haha same
― thinkmanship (sleeve), Thursday, 4 August 2022 21:39 (one year ago) link
That was awesome, thanks for sharing!
― birdistheword, Thursday, 4 August 2022 22:27 (one year ago) link
just in case people didn't know, there's a great 26 minute Live At The Rainbow 1977 video on YouTube too, from the It's Alive concert
― StanM, Thursday, 4 August 2022 22:39 (one year ago) link
the start of that is too camera flip heavy + some shots are reused but it gets better
― StanM, Thursday, 4 August 2022 22:41 (one year ago) link
Man, I got to get that Ramones DVD set now. Just looking at the tracklist makes me drool.
― birdistheword, Friday, 5 August 2022 02:57 (one year ago) link
This one?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3zaeOyL7Q
― My Little Red Buchla (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 5 August 2022 18:16 (one year ago) link
yeah! (sorry, was on my phone, could have linked that myself)
― StanM, Saturday, 6 August 2022 00:04 (one year ago) link
Saw a little something interesting on a certain substack yesterday, assuming TSF saw it as well.
― And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 2 February 2023 11:20 (one year ago) link
https://waynerobins49.substack.com/p/ramones-leave-home
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 15:28 (one year ago) link
would have loved to see dr feelgood. i don't think i saw the ramones until 1977. saw them once at cbgb but it was a madhouse.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 2 February 2023 15:32 (one year ago) link
Gabba gabba weeks said you weeks said you one of us
― calstars, Friday, 25 August 2023 00:53 (seven months ago) link
Ramones and Dr Feelgood would have been fun. I didn't see Ramones till 79
― curmudgeon, Friday, 25 August 2023 14:09 (seven months ago) link
Fabulous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8sNfCdCAJg
― Monthly Python (Tom D.), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 17:10 (seven months ago) link
11 songs in 20 minutes. Amazing.
― read-only (unperson), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 17:32 (seven months ago) link
Man, that totally hit the spot. Made my day, maybe my week.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 23:07 (seven months ago) link
wonderful <3
― brimstead, Thursday, 14 September 2023 00:53 (seven months ago) link
So great. Thanks.
― BlackIronPrison, Thursday, 14 September 2023 01:49 (seven months ago) link
You see that and you wonder why the Ramones weren’t big stars right away in the US. I think it was down to the radio formatting at the time.
― Josefa, Thursday, 14 September 2023 02:00 (seven months ago) link
Force of nature. That's why It's Alive! is my favorite Ramones album, it's like a freight train.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 14 September 2023 03:22 (seven months ago) link
that "all downstrokes" rule was punishing.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 14 September 2023 10:25 (seven months ago) link
Did you subject yourself to that rule at any point, TSF?
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 September 2023 11:03 (seven months ago) link
only long enough to prove to myself those guys were crazy.
― Thus Sang Freud, Thursday, 14 September 2023 13:37 (seven months ago) link
There are other situations where people do it, but maybe not ever single bar(re) of every single song.
― The Thin, Wild Mercury Rising (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 14 September 2023 13:43 (seven months ago) link