is anybody else a recluse

You are going to be so fucking depressed after x years of this, and then regret it horribly.

That isn't necessarily true. My tendencies in this area are getting worse but I feel good about it because I have interests/activities to absorb me. The problem with having no friends is you may need help some day. Where will you turn? That's the price you may pay for the freedom of having no-one bothering you.

First i am not going to decide not to be a recluse anymore I am a recluse always have been. I don't want to be around people because I have nothing in common with the everyday person they babble on about things I can not relate to and of course they can not relate to me when I talk about things I like they say OH then just sort of walk away and look back at me in horror. Could you be my friend I only go out on cloudy rainy or foggy days the rain feels so good almost like a cleansing and the beauty of the greyness that the fog puts on everything is breath taking and the sun makes me quite ill I wear dark clothing only I hate colors I dye my hair black(i love everything black) black eye make-up nails I'm only attracted to transvestite males and forget that bbq I hate meat the look and smell of it and if I see someone eating meat well to me it looks evil. I like the look of gothic that is what you will see at my house and it makes me laugh to see people go about their lives like they are really getting somewhere in life because they don't realize that they are the walking dead each day that we live is one day closer to our death we are going nowhere but in the ground so I don't want to hear about your garden and your parties, camping, ball games etc. you bore me I'm much deeper than that and you can't and won't handle it. So be it and be on your way I am not for this world and it is not for me and yes I believe in God and the after life and pray for forgiveness that Im not doing my part on this earth for God for I can not relate to the people on this earth and do know that its only temporary I will die and the next chapter will begin.

you are quite talkative for a recluse

A recluse with a speed addiction.

It seems logical to stay inside if that's how the outside world appears to you, but then what's logically so much better about the inside of your house - I mean, inherently? I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I'm just curious. Like if anyone asked me why I get reclusive I would immediately mention anxiety but you specify that's not your reason for withdrawing. You seem to be saying 'all earthly things are meaningless, so what's the point becoming involved with them.' Do you believe that things will be meaningful in heaven because they will endure eternally?

hmmm im having a very strange problem with my gothicblue email all of these old messages i have deleted in the past week are invading my inbox like cockroaches and i cant find my new messages so anybody who sent me a private message to my gothicblue email could you send it to my yahoo address...

i just started on some new prozac form, need to find out yet if/how it works

the black fingernail... wasn't that syd james dressed as an 18th century aristocrat saving the french from the guillotine?

don't lose your head

Jean, why don't you go to goth clubs? there are lots of people like you at them. That's if your thing is not liking people who are different from you rather than not liking people per se.

One should always bear in mind that no matter how unique one might seem, there are always millions of people in the world who are pretty much the same as you.

I find the idea of actually liking being a recluse disturbing... when I was younger I had no friends. It was shit. Now I have friends and people I can talk to and hang out with, and it's great.

Some of this absolutely has to be fake. Especially the punctuation.

I would certainly agree with this last answer, I've to some extent enjoyed being a recluse, taking the time to do what I want. However it is very much a double edged sword. I dislike the fact I have no one to bouce ideas off, or ask someones opinion. In the same breath I find the idea of mixing with other people so difficult now and completely at odds with the way Ive conditioned myself. I think the very idea that being a recluse is a great lifestyle choice rather odd. No matter how'out there' you put yourself, you will meet your match at some point along the way.

Im sure I will eventually run across such people..and that is a thought which is constantly in the back of my mind.

A recluse with a speed addiction.

You and me both, sister.

I'm sitting here at home, I have to be at work in about an hour and a half, and I feel like absolute shit. Who was it above that mentioned not being able to stand the weekend? That is me all the way... when it's Friday afternoon I'm scared, because I know that I'm going to have nothing to do, and much worse, no one to do it with. I could clean up around the apartment, maybe meet my cousin for lunch if he's free, go to Amoeba, and then maybe fill up enough hours until the evening when I can go out and get drunk by myself at a bar (feeling good cuz I know how fucking handsome I am and half the guys there want me and how sick am I but I'm not even joking when I say this), but more likely I'll realize I've got all this time ahead of me and not be able to take it and call my dealer and get fucked up and speed away my weekend doing stuff that I'm not going to admit here or anywhere probably. It's pretty sad that at some level I find this preferable to actually facing my life, which is lonely but really not that bad and I don't know how I got this far wrong, but I did and I think I might need help straightening things out.

I have so much going on at work right now, and I wasted so much time last week that I need to be there all day today really on the ball, and it's clear that's not going to happen. There's this "outreach to the community" place near my house that I always assumed was like counseling services and stuff; I went to the website before coming to ILX and sure enough that's what it is (it's not free like I guessed, though)... I hate the thought of 12-step meetings and all that, but I'm hoping I can go to something this morning. I realize I may not be able to go to something or talk to anyone before I finally go to work, but I'm hoping. It's a big step for me, because going out into the open and admitting you're having a speed problem isn't like drinking too much, you can go to an elegant restaurant or classy party and order a cocktail or a glass of wine; you sure don't break out the crack pipe. It's shady, scuzzy and embarassing, and once I walk in there I can't pretend in front of whoever's there that it didn't happen and I didn't go in. Obviously, I know nobody's going to judge me. But I (falsely, I know) put a lot of my self-worth in looking and seeming to be really together and professional, and I hate the thought of admitting it's false.

If I go to meetings or whatever they are, maybe I can plan on doing that, and be able to say, well tonight I can at least go somewhere, and not have to worry about being all frantic and alone.

On of the things Jean said reminded me of one of the most self-defeating thought patterns in my life; that of thinking I'm not like anyone else, or hardly anyone else, that most other people couldn't possibly understand me or have anything in common with me or to offer me, and even to this day I feel that way a lot even while knowing that I'm so very wrong. Maybe if I convince myself I'm so special and different, I will have a good excuse why I don't have any friends; I mean, who could possibly be good enough?? Maybe the reality is that whole thing is just a defence mechanism from being too scared to really take the risk of being out there and trying to forge relationships and running the risk of rejection (not based on my looks, of course, I can always peddle my sorry ass that way). I don't mean Jean feels this way, but it made me think about myself.

I guess I am a self-analytical and self-aware person, I don't know if I will follow through on any path for self-improvement but I hope I do. I do promise that once 9:00 am comes, I will call this place I mentioned and see what services are offered, and I'll go there if something is happening this morning. I'll email work and say I'm coming in late, and I'll go in later feeling shitty and looking haggard, but at least be able to tackle a few things and make an appearance.

Ok, I've been typing for too long now, and if anyone's made it this far I'm amazed. I could say a lot more, but I've said plenty as it is. You people don't know me, this whole interweb could be a crack-pipe dream, I'm confessing or speaking to no one. But I'm going to speak to real people later. Good for me, eh?

Personal to Jean: open your curtains.

Hmm, well despite what the counseling center's website says, I've called and they're closed Mondays.

Hey, Sean, at least some of us are reading. :-) I can't offer much more than a friendly voice, I fear, but I hope you find your answer to all this -- it's a situation that sounds truly imprisoning.

Sean that's no excuse not to try again next year. But forildo, get in there, man. It sounds like you know you're ready.

Tracer is right. This kind of step seems much more valuable than any amount of counselling (as has been said, most of them are useless fools), in that it is you doing something that addresses what you don't like about your life even before any of their courses kick in. Good luck.

I can only echo the sentiment and good wishes of Ned, Tracer and Martin.

How do people get into these situations?

Wow...I am incredibly frustrated with a couple of these messages. Not like aww, isn't that sad but more like ergh! I had a phase like that but thankfully it has passed.

Jean it seems to me that you are still using the common(?) world to justify (word choice?) your life. Introducing yourself by saying I have no ===, no ===, and no === is just as undesirable as talking about baseball games, gardens, or what kind of new haircut you want. Negative positive, positive negative. Truth is probably no one on the other side of society gives a damn, the same way you feel about them. I'm guilty of this too. I did all that "not for me" stuff without the hope of an afterlife or the benefit of having the Goth support group. I was angrier than I interpret you being and I still moved on, perhaps that was because I didn't have a support group of any sort. I just get pissed off at all these us-and-them mentalities from "weird kids" and "preppie kids"-whatever you want to call the groups. There is a game that can be played in this world and perhaps you should play it or just quit bitching. (Everyone bitches.) That probably sounds a little harsh but you can just disregard it. Whew, I feel better now but I'm also dreading any responses I might get.

Anyone who wants to seek help for any sort of undesirable behavior has my personal hoorahs.

good luck to sean.

Low self esteem has a lot do with it. As shitty as feeling lonely and miserable is, it's easier than putting yourself out there into some uncomfortable social situation. Going out, calling someone up, meeting people all require effort and carry the risk of rejection. The more you exercise those social muscles, the easier it gets. And more important, the effort you put in will come back to you. You just have to initiate, and keep initiating, until something clicks.

[I] do know that its only temporary I will die and the next chapter will begin.

But how do you know that? It might not begin. Or what if an afterlife exists, but it demands socializing with others to an even GREATER extent than is demanded in this world?

Surely it's better to face the challenges and enjoy as fully as possible the pleasures of THIS life (which may be all we get, after all), in the here and now...

Oh so now I'm a bitch(with bad punctuation) well you will never read another word from me I'm taking greenspun off of my list I see I don't belong here I'm sorry if I upset anybody I just wanted to reach out to other recluses I wish everybody (who poured their heart out on this thread) better days ahead.

With all due respect, Jean, no one called you a bitch. Being accused of "bitching" is not the same thing, and I think you know that. Though, if this is an indication of how sensitive you are, then leaving ILE might save you more pain.

I'm all for welcoming self-penned recluses in open arms (in this manner of protocol anyway), but if you're difficult to even welcome, what's the point?

I just wanted to reach out to other recluses

do you like being a recluse?

I think one thing with this thread is people don't like the idea that others might be self-sufficient and not need human contact for their own well-being, hence catty responses. Thinking of all the people who for whatever reason are denied human contact makes me wonder about people who deliberately choose to be alone. But hey, one thing about being human is being able to make choices about how to live your life, and what's good for most of us will not be good for all.

Caveat delivered in good faith - deciding to withdraw from the world is fine, provided you remember that re-entry becomes progressively more difficult, and when you come out of your shell the world will have moved on. That's the tough part.

FE FI FOE FUM I Smell A Wanker.....today is the day i fuck off from here so anymore messages to me will hit a brick wall.....THERES NO PLACE LIKE HOME (click click click)

I think one thing with this thread is people don't like the idea that others might be self-sufficient and not need human contact for their own well-being, hence catty responses.

Well, I can definitely relate to some of what Jean is saying, maybe from the opposite side of the fence. For me (I hope I don't come off as arrogant with any of what I'm saying), I consider myself to have a VERY active social life, to the point that it's actually overwhelming to me. Like when I move in two weeks, I am going to have to let about 30 or so 'real life' friends (with whom I keep regular contact individually) know where I'm moving to. But despite all this, I am an extremely shy, introverted person, the farthest thing from a social butterfly: "social, not exactly by choice" ;). I hate going to loud parties where I don't know a majority of the people; it really is like going to the dentist for me, and requires the same amount of energy and psychological preparation. And often I find a lot of the people you meet at these are so wrapped up in themselves, their families, their accomplishments, you soon feel like you are being forced to watch somebody's home movies just talking to them. The key to this is I am careful to calculate the I/ME:YOU/HE/SHE/IT ratio when I talk to someone for the first time. If they are too egocentric for my tastes, I'm outta there. I also don't really like talking on the phone for a prolonged period of time with anyone, had to get dragged kicking and screaming into purchasing a cellular phone :), and when I get home (which is my sacred sanctuary from the battering ocean of socialness of my 9-to-5 life), I cringe whenever I see the answering machine blinking. From that part, I can relate to some of what Jean is saying, as I think many of us would.

But where I would largely not agree with Jean's (Jean, I am not meaning to sound aggressive or adversarial to you) view, would be that ultimately, despite the overwhelmingness, I am truly grateful and feel really lucky and blessed to have/know the friends and family I have/know, and would rather I had them than not have them, because they are all special people to me.

Also, what I would say to Jean is, sure, you see the people who kiss the worlds ass and are unhappy because they are so concerned that people like them. But do you also see the corresponding people who genuinely love their interactions in the world and are quite happy and secure in their dealings with others? Because whether you like it or not, the fact is they exist, and I would guess in equal numbers to those who kiss-ass. Also, sure, there are people who don't know anything beyond baseball, gardening, hair cuts, whatever. On the other hand, there are other people out there who might have more than this in their conversational repertoire (maybe you might find it's the very same person, once you talk to them more and more, beyond the invariable shallowness of opening small talk); and often, these people might not look or act anything like you on the surface. I'm willing to bet good money that I don't look anything like you at all (I would look to you like a 'preppie', I venture :) ), yet I still know something about goth bands and am open to learning more. Or perhaps the person really does have totally different likes than you (baseball, gardening, etc.)--but maybe you'll find their passions are more interesting or have more to them than you initially gave them credit for. I guess my point is not EVERYONE is boring, shallow, intolerant, etc. and the only way that you would find out who is and who isn't is by talking to them. You say you want someone who is just like you, to stay at home in your 'own little world'---how would you find them? If they are in accordance with your ideals, than right now wouldn't they be at home in their 'own little world', not desiring contact with anyone else? Again, I hope I don't sound aggressive or mean, Jean. It's just I think there's another side of the coin that you should consider...

OH LOOK MOMMY that girl won't play with us Come away from her child we don't like people like that.... GO SUCK YOUR MAMMAs TIT... leave us recluse alone you stupid cunts now here comes the blah blah blah

Perhaps some of us were mistaken in reading the initial question as something of a cry for help when it's now clear it was something more akin to a boast. Fair enough; she's made her decision.

Joe made some excellent points about making assumptions about people based on their appearance. It's a typical human trait to do this, but I know I've done it, without deliberately trying to be exclusive or mean, to the extent that I end up giving far too people a chance. I'm not just talking about clothes or haircuts here; I have more thoughts about this which I may post on a later thread.

Finally, thank you to everyone who wished me well, I really appreciate it. Hopefully yesterday's lengthy post wasn't too disturbing. I'm feeling fine today, albeit slammed with projects here at work, and am working on an appropriate course of action to prevent further disaster in my life.

Love you!

You can be self-sufficient and have a social life. One does not exclude the other.

it's now clear it was something more akin to a boast

No-one's immune to the need for attention seeking.

Jean, is this thread so that you can tell us all how happy you are living your reclusive lives, or are you looking for other recluses? If you want to get in touch with other recluses - why? doesn't that negate the point of the whole recluse thing? Or is it that you are seeking people who, like you, are different from the rest of society - your reclusiveness being driven by a sense of difference to the rest of us rather than a liking for the solitary life per se?

My mention of goth clubs wasn't facetious, they are full of people who see themselves as somehow removed from the rest of society.

"People are shit, I hate people, people hate me, I can live without people, people are shit, PLEASE TELL ME HOW GOOD AND BRAVE I AM FOR MANAGING TO BE ALONE."

It's a crock.

Nick is saying what I was thinking all along

its a crock alright. i hope so, i just can't handle the arrogance.

GoThIcBlUe ArE YoU ElViS

Post of the week.

OuCh ThOsE BrIcKs HuRt!

Where's your head at? Where's your head at? Wheres your head at? Don't let the walls cave in on you We can live on live on without you You get what you give that much is true Don't let the walls cave in on you You turn the world away from you Where's your head at? You have now found yourself trapped in the incomprehensible maze Where's your head at?