oh god, ask hadley today is just... tooth-grinding.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (sixteen years ago) link
"today"
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:17 (sixteen years ago) link
"At what age is a man too old to wear band T-shirts?"
Martin McCall, by email
"About 15 - that young enough for you, Martin? And to follow one rhetorical question with several more, what in God's name is the point of band T-shirts anyway? To show your allegiance to a band? Do you think anyone else cares? To impress onlookers with your esoteric musical knowledge? See previous reply. To make people stare at your bony chest? Again, I refer you to the first answer. To show that you once attended a live gig? Wow, like, a pair of golden headsets to the guy in the Nirvana '91 T-shirt. In case you happen to bump into the lead singer on the street, he sees that the two of you are kindred souls and therefore invites you to join his band and you then go on the road and have all the manly bonding sessions followed by groupies that your heart could desire? OK, I'll give you that one, although this does suggest that you still harbour the fantasy that you might bump into Joey Ramone in Waterstone's.
"As for ladies in band T-shirts, give me a fricking break. First, gals, a badly cut, poorly made, oversized T-shirt is good for nothing other than wearing to bed and the gym. Second, too often women who wear band T-shirts appear to be going for what we shall call Groupie Chic. It is a style amply modelled by Kate Moss in recent years, and can pretty much be summed up as skinny faded black jeans, ankle boots, a ripped band T-shirt and a cropped fur jacket. In other words, a girlified version of Marc Bolan's or Keith Richards' wardrobe, as though the woman has been so busy, um, sleeping on the band bus she hasn't had time to clean her clothes, so she's now wearing ones belonging to her musical companion. This column has no time for such nonsense."
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:19 (sixteen years ago) link
Yeah, because women have *no* interest in music whatsoever except for sleeping with musicians. What CENTURY is this cretin from?
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:21 (sixteen years ago) link
I think I stopped wearing band T-shirts by the time I was 23. It wasn't necessarily a conscious move tho. I doubt I will ever wear one again tho - I guess it seems lame unless it's an old obscure or overlooked thus hip act (even this I dunno about). I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them. Does Matt DC still have that Save Ferris T?
I only want to sleep with musicians if they are hot as they are (their musical ability is pretty irrelevant in fact).
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:29 (sixteen years ago) link
dear teh grauniad - a long time ago/we used to be friends...
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link
It went downhill after I left.
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:33 (sixteen years ago) link
or were you PUSHED?
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:35 (sixteen years ago) link
http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-02%2015.37.57%20-0700/Image-D15E03FF59A011DC.jpg
heh. (sorry alex, no harm intended)
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.abc.net.au/sport/thesportsdesk/images/200607/20060707henrydive_derblog.jpg
xp
― Dom Passantino, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:36 (sixteen years ago) link
i was being harsh really. i don't care what's on other people's t-shirts that much. just trying to work out why i stopped wearing/wouldn't wear band t-shirts myself.
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Any t-shirt which isn't plain white clearly sucks that's why.
― aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:38 (sixteen years ago) link
i couldn't agree less
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link
I still wear band t-shirts if I like the band. Why not? I don't *define* myself or my personality by my music tastes any more, I haven't done that since I was about 18. But that's not the same thing as wearing a band t-shirt.
I suppose the fashion journalist in discussion cannot fathom the idea that clothes are just something you put on, rather than a definition of or statement about your personality.
This is definitely something that happens as you age - or rather, has happened to me as I aged. There's a subtle difference between Statement Clothes and just things you put on.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link
Guardian editorial worldview circa 2007:
http://www.astucia.co.uk/images/sce/galibier%20tunnel%20_three.jpg
― tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:41 (sixteen years ago) link
why else would you buy a band t-shirt if not as a statement or definition of personality?
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 (sixteen years ago) link
I didn't know it was a band t-shirt okay?
― Matt DC, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (sixteen years ago) link
because you're cold xp
― tissp, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:45 (sixteen years ago) link
In the past I've usually just bought them as a keepsake of a gig I've enjoyed. The piece tracer quotes is idiotic fluff, obv. I'd be embarrased to admit I'd written that.
― Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link
Because you like the design? Because you like the music? Because it was given to you (this is where most of mine come from)? Because it was a souvenier?
x-post
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:46 (sixteen years ago) link
you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?
because you like the music = statement/definition of you/your taste
given to you = not you buying
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:48 (sixteen years ago) link
No, plus I've only ever bought them @ gigs.
Probably yeah, but w/smaller bands there's also the knowledge that in buying it, yr helping to supposrt the tour.
― Pashmina, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:50 (sixteen years ago) link
i actually bought a comets on fire t-shirt solely because the design was so awesome. (it was at a gig, but they hadn't come on stage yet.) then i heard the music and i liked that too. i suppose if i hadn't liked their music, or thought it was boring, it would have posed a problem.
a friend of mine, who shall remain nameless so that alex in nyc doesn't stalk and kill him, bought a huge iron maiden patch when he was 14 and sewed it across the shoulders of his denim jacket. he had never heard a note of iron maiden, but he wound up becoming the biggest iron maiden fan i know, and even sung in a band later, where his vocal style was almost inseparable from bruce dickinson's.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link
my take on this: do not read hadley freeman.
this resolution made some time ago, stands as strong today as it ever did.
it's a crass and deliberately invidious piece of writing. such an attitude, if sincerely held, could be turned around on pretty much ANY choice of clothing. so forgeddaboudit
― Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:53 (sixteen years ago) link
the last band t-shirt i bought - robyn!
alan i can't help myself, i know i'm sick and need help.
― Tracer Hand, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:54 (sixteen years ago) link
is there a thread for best band t-shirts? must see
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (sixteen years ago) link
Taste is something that I have. It does not define me. Clothes are something I wear. The statement I am making is "I don't really care about clothes any more."
If I'm going to make a statement about clothes, I'll wear a bright green paisley jacket to a dronerock festival where everyone else is in leather.
I suppose my Hawkwind t-shirt is a statement, it says "ha ha, I'm wearing a Hawkwind t-shirt, I care nothing for fashion, I am wearing the shirt of a band so deeply uncool you can suck my left one because I love them!" But it's certainly not a statement saying that I want to f*ck any of Hawkwind or that I have a musician boyfriend whose Hawkwind t-shirt I'm borrowing, which is the assumption of that article.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 14:56 (sixteen years ago) link
> I don't notice many people over 20 wearing them.
*SOBS*
> you wouldn't actually buy a band t-shirt because you liked the design but not necessarily the band tho...would you?
EAR t-shirt with the putney on the front = great. EAR live = terrible. (EAR on CD = ok, plus pram and stereolab were supporting)
― koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:03 (sixteen years ago) link
"Do you think anyone else cares?"
the core MOTOR of fashion is YES OF COURSE I THINK OTHER PEOPLE CARE THAT I AM WEARING... WHAT'S "IN". no less dumb than wearing something else that forms part of your identity. so it's just a puerile throw away bit of nonsense. heh. fashion in 'being puerile' shocker.
― Alan, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:05 (sixteen years ago) link
I gave up caring whether I was too old to wear band t-shirts or whatever a long time ago. Really, if you're getting that worked up about what other people are wearing, the joke's on you, I think. To paraphrase - "Do you think anyone else cares?"
Yesterday I wore an X-Ray Spex t-shirt. I am 31. Oh noes.
― Colonel Poo, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link
If a FAC 51 Hacienda T-shirt counts as a band t-shirt, I am wearing one NOW. I am more than 31.
― Dr.C, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Unless you buy shirts at arena shows or whatever they cost a tenner or less which is cheaper than t-shirts tend to be (aside from plain ones from Primark or something). I guess it bugs fashiony people cos it's fashion for people who don't give a shit about fashion
― DJ Mencap, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:33 (sixteen years ago) link
whoa there, people do this All The Time! witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:37 (sixteen years ago) link
What's a putney, Andy?
I bought a Mega City Four t-shirt the other week. I bought it cos I like the band and I like their logo, and out of nostalgia.
― Mark C, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:44 (sixteen years ago) link
witness all the motorhead/def leppard/poison tees on sale at top shop/debenhams/whatever
really? since when do those shops sell (official?) band merchandise?
but how do you know people buying them don't like the band (even if it's 'ironic' or just liking the idea OF liking them, if that makes sense) anyway?
i can imagine some people, not just kids or people buying for kids, buy band t-shirts because of the design and without really knowing about the band but can't be that many really. this is even more of a facile 'want to look cool' statement tho isn't it? that sense of knowing what to buy but not really knowing why...
remember the 'little girls wearing Nico 'Chelsea Girl' t-shirt thing (altho i approved of this ha)
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 15:45 (sixteen years ago) link
Uhm yeah, there were tons of high street chains selling classic rock tees (I presume they just bought a load wholesale).
― aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:00 (sixteen years ago) link
i figure these are aimed at and bought mainly by teenagers
― blueski, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:07 (sixteen years ago) link
since AGES, honestly. i doubt your "average" 14-year-old Miss Selfridge customer would have a clue/give a shit who Def Leppard/insert 80s hair metal band here are. it's just a noisy "cool" design that'll make her look a bit like Peaches Geldof or whoever.
I'm sure I remember even Primark licensing some lame/classic 80s band tee designs recently.
and As Matt DC has admitted, sometimes people buy band tees without even realising that's what they are!
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:10 (sixteen years ago) link
nb this whole discussion is clearly on the wrong thread.
― CharlieNo4, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:11 (sixteen years ago) link
Someone was selling MC5 shirts a good few years ago and it was the only place that you could get MC5 shirts so I know loads of people that bought them as they had been desperate for years to get them. I got mine online but it was probably the same shirt.
― pfunkboy, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:14 (sixteen years ago) link
a putney
http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/vcs3.jpg
― zappi, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:14 (sixteen years ago) link
so called because they were made in putney (not far from you actually, there's a website that gives the actual address of the place they used to make them, cottage industry style, deodor road, sw15).
http://www.ems-synthi.demon.co.uk/snaps/everynun.jpg
― koogs, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:43 (sixteen years ago) link
Hang on a second, I went to primary school at 49 Deodar Road!!
― Mark C, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:49 (sixteen years ago) link
Oh, I didn't, it was 95-97 Deodar Road (since moved). My best friend at the time lived at 50 Deodar Road, though.
― Mark C, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:50 (sixteen years ago) link
I've got a Synthi t-shirt but my god, I want a t-shirt with that nun on it.
― Masonic Boom, Monday, 3 September 2007 16:52 (sixteen years ago) link
I am currently wearing a T-ahirt of a band that I saw live but didn't like much. It's a pretty design and the band aren't well known enough for many people to even know it's a band T-shirt.
I have had it on since yesterday so should probably take it off soon.
― Alba, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 11:13 (sixteen years ago) link
what's the band?
― blueski, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 11:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Skrewdriver
― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 11:14 (sixteen years ago) link
Ha. A Swedish indiepop band called Aerospace.
― Alba, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 11:27 (sixteen years ago) link
good name/word for t-shirt
― blueski, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 11:31 (sixteen years ago) link
i wondered if he was related to Steven Runciman and of course he his, nepo-politics forever
― Bitchin Doutai (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 March 2024 15:42 (three weeks ago) link
nepo discourse comes from the aristocracy at last
― mark s, Sunday, 31 March 2024 16:16 (three weeks ago) link
Zoe sticking to the really important issues of the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/01/the-wags-are-back-but-i-miss-the-carefree-days-of-posh-and-coleen
― The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 07:58 (three weeks ago) link
Probably their oddest columnist. She writes a lot about health and fitness and about her personal life.
Alternating between something serious and this.
I read it as some acknowledgement that their politics is too awful to fling on to ppl every week.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 09:09 (three weeks ago) link
this may have become distorted in the rear view mirror but as far as I remember ZW was further to the left than most guardian commentators for a long time and a fairly vocal supporter of trans rights. when she started doing what suddenly seemed like loads more lifestyle fluff in a Tim Dowling style, I wondered whose call that was.
― verhexen, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 09:32 (three weeks ago) link
Still wrote a ton of lifestyle fluff for the Evening Standard before she joined the Guardian.
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 09:51 (three weeks ago) link
i have a soft spot for zoe williams but dont feel compelled to read her
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 10:41 (three weeks ago) link
didn't Zoe Williams used to be their sort of voice-of-youth columnist back in the day? Anyway, the oldest Zoe Williams column available on the guardian website is a list of '101 things we don't miss' published April 2001 that includes Roland Rat and Deely-Boppers, so her writing fluff pieces for them is not a new development
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2001/apr/21/weekend.zoewilliams2
― soref, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 11:10 (three weeks ago) link
I know her a little because we have many mutuals and I like her; she has no time for bigots or terfs, especially those in the media. She is definitely on the left despite going to private school in West London. Not crazy about the Poly Filla stuff she is asked to write, though. I say this all the time but columnists get their gigs because an editor becomes fascinated with some aspect of their lives and then they’re in that job forever. One huge reason her output has increased recently is that she has been seconded to Parliamentary sketch person while John Crace recuperates from his heart attack.
― steely flan (suzy), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 11:43 (three weeks ago) link
should i be worried abt the heart-attack rate among senior guardian columnists? god keep chiles safe!
― mark s, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 11:47 (three weeks ago) link
He doesn't have Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit living rent-free in his head.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 12:51 (three weeks ago) link
fluff is good again
― mark s, Tuesday, 2 April 2024 13:54 (three weeks ago) link
it just goes to show that centrism is even worse for health than heroin addiction
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 2 April 2024 16:17 (three weeks ago) link
Certainly at a policy level
― plax (ico), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 07:10 (three weeks ago) link
and at a personal cost for Crace, the burden of being a disgusting neoliberal shill led him to get his posh works out again and inject a heart attack inducing speedball into his balls!
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 07:45 (three weeks ago) link
omglol
― The Prime of the Ancient Minister (Tom D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2024 08:09 (three weeks ago) link
Say what?
Labour’s shadow chancellor says she is William Wragg incident and says it is right there is proper investigation
― Hunky Tory (Tom D.), Friday, 5 April 2024 13:28 (two weeks ago) link
"But Doctor, I am William Wragg incident"
― Ethinically Ambigaus (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 5 April 2024 16:27 (two weeks ago) link
lol
― Fizzles, Friday, 5 April 2024 16:29 (two weeks ago) link
As Rachel Reeves awoke one morning from uneasy dreams she found herself transformed in her bed into William Wragg incident.
― plax (ico), Saturday, 6 April 2024 18:07 (two weeks ago) link
Meltamorphosis
― subpost master (wins), Saturday, 6 April 2024 18:33 (two weeks ago) link
the foul insect-like creature was transformed into william wragg incident. It was a mixed bag but most certainly an upgrade of sorts.
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Saturday, 6 April 2024 18:52 (two weeks ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/09/m-and-s-invests-methane-burping-farting-cows
― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 11:50 (two weeks ago) link
what a load of bullsh- ah, right yeah, that's literally what it's about
― glumdalclitch, Tuesday, 9 April 2024 12:08 (two weeks ago) link
just clicking on that graun website to see some more smouldering manure
― vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 12:26 (two weeks ago) link
Not worse just the same old same old from these double dyed cunts.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/25/frank-field-lib-dems-progressive
― Not waving but droning (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 April 2024 09:04 (eight hours ago) link
Leaving the politics aside it's a piece of will-this-do crap and as political analysis it's inane.
― Not waving but droning (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 April 2024 09:13 (eight hours ago) link
Guardian declare for "Sir" Ed Davey now, you cowards!
― Critique of the Goth Programme (Neil S), Thursday, 25 April 2024 09:29 (eight hours ago) link