Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

imo when someone asks for jazz recommendations & we spend half the thread going on about sun ra we are basically off topic

Nope, because I said in my original thread post:

Stuff I picked up tonight (never heard any of these before, will listen soon):

Miles Davis - Nefertiti
Miles Davis - On the Corner
Sun Ra - The Heliocentric Worlds of Sun Ra, Volume One

― ilxor, Wednesday, January 19, 2011 9:29 PM (2 days ago)

(xp to Algerian Goalkeeper there)

there's volume 2 though

i think they were the 1st sun ra i ever bought (on vinyl too)

sun ra's 'on jupiter' is actually way more danceable & straight-up (drunk) disco-y than disco 3000 ime

guess i oughtta track it down. *sigh* so much ra...

Speaking of Ra, I'm about to listen to "Strange Strings" for the first time...

imo when someone asks for jazz recommendations & we spend half the thread going on about sun ra we are basically off topic

fair enough. he's a cult unto himself, but i do love him. funny that we've had like 50 posts on sun ra and only a small handful on like duke ellington and louis armstrong. this is ILM, though, so no surprise.

I also mentioned upfront that I'm pretty well versed in kraut/space/psych rock and free/psych-folk idioms, so I think (hope!) many of the Sun Ra recommendations are being made with that kept in mind as well.

I'd figure one could draw lines between Sun Ra --> Parliament/Funkadelic --> Sonic Youth --> OutKast (or something similar) as well, which would be in line with my (and other ILX folks') listening habits and tastes.

Sun Ra --> Parliament/Funkadelic --> Sonic Youth --> OutKast (or something similar)

deej gave me shit for doing this on some other thread fwiw

but yeah would be happy if people went off about various Duke albums

been meaning to get Black and Tan Fantasy for awhile

Are those two different albums -- Black; Tan Fantasy -- or one album called Black and Tan Fantasy?

(Yes I realize I could've just Googled that but I'd obviously rather flaunt my ignorance.)

Keep in mind I'm approaching jazz from the standpoint of loving stuff like krautrock, psych rock, "weird" folky stuff that gets a bit drone-y at times.
enthusiastically second In A Silent Way! (also Filles de Kilimanjaro)
although Herbie Hancock's Sextant is a great and logical recommendation, the Headhunters record might be a better place to start (SO many people love this record upon first listen)
Weather Report's Mysterious Traveller (if only for "Cucumber Slumber")
Sun Ra's Languitity (mentioned already?)
Dave Douglas (interesting mix of tradition and experimental electronics on "Freak In"...)
Ornette's "Dancing in Your Head", "Of Human Feelings", and "Body Meta" (those last two will be tough to find, but worth the search)

Black & Tan Fantasy is one record.

If you're trying to invent a line from Sun Ra to Sonic Youth and non-jazz improvised music (beyond philosophical inspiration), Strange Strings might make sense as a waypoint:

After finishing a series of concerts of New York State colleges sponsored by ESP, Sun Ra decided to assemble a number of stringed instruments bought from curio shops and music stores. Ukuleles, Mandolins, Kotos, Koras, Chinese Lutes and 'Moon Guitars' were handed out to his reed and horn players in the belief that 'strings could touch people in a special way, different from other instruments [3].' The point was that the Arkestra didn't know how to play them - Sun Ra called it 'a study in ignorance.' [3]

'Next they prepared a number of homemade instruments, including a large piece of tempered sheet metal with an "X" chiseled on it. Then they miked the Sun Columns.

'Marshall Allen said that when they began to record the musicians asked Sun Ra what they should play, and he answered only that he would point to them when he wanted them to start. The result is an astonishing achievement, a musical event which seems independent of all other musical traditions and histories.... The piece is all texture, with no sense of tonality except where Art Jenkins sings through a metal megaphone with a tunnel voice. But to say that the instruments seem out of tune misses the point, since there is no "tune", and in any case the Arkestra did not know how to tune most of the instruments...'

It's surprisingly listenable.

Sun Ra --> Parliament/Funkadelic --> Sonic Youth --> OutKast (or something similar)

deej gave me shit for doing this on some other thread fwiw

― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, January 21, 2011 1:28 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i know there's a strain of listener who likes all of these things but Shakey Mo's Black People Should Get Off This Planet mix doesnt per se outline influence or significance to anyone but shakey mo & the niche of similar listeners

... aaaaaand let's cut the Sun Ra influences discussion there, before we derail this thread completely. :)

btw i haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, so i will mention it (because it completely blew my mind in high school):

john coltrane - live at birdland

― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Friday, 21 January 2011 18:25 (1 hour ago)

Yeah same. This was another one of those less "essential" records I heard first and loved. Oh, btw, MY FAVORITE THINGS -- great, great jazz record for a jazz noob.

Similarly, I heard Milestones way before Kind of Blue and I still think I may like it better.

Birdland has that awesome sounding slightly out of tune piano.

yeah my favorite things (the track, then the whole album) was probably the jazz gateway drug for me. never ever gets old.

I mean I'm going to troll a little here, but given the choice between Sun Ra's entire discography and just My Favorite Things as the only music I have to listen to, I would unquestionably take the latter

ill cosign 'live at birdland,' anythin w/ afro blue x alabama is gonna be unstoppable

I also like Coltrane's Sound better than Giant Steps

Shakey Mo's Black People Should Get Off This Planet mix ...

― *gets the power* (deej), Friday, January 21, 2011 11:50 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

ffs, dude

ha thats a play on an old shakey mo post

duh, okay. scanned more aggro than necessary.

(seriously I would totally flip my shit right now if there were some rap act saying "black people got to get off this fuckin planet and into space - and here's the music to go along with it")

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:58 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think significance (or maybe i should say relevance) changes depending on context and audience. like it's reasonable here to tailor recommendations and discussion to the musical world of the admittedly krautrockin ilxor. like more sun ra & coltrane, less art tatum.

I would totally flip my shit right now if there were some rap act saying "black people got to get off this fuckin planet and into space - and here's the music to go along with it"

plus shut the fuck up, me, cuz that's obviously what sun ra was saying, and just as obviously what you were referring to. i can't think sometimes...

Skimming through here: just chip in that giving Ascension a go as a first record by Coltrane is completely fine as you pretty much know he did lots of different things. Just as Ra making singles isn't at all strange.

Good stuff. I've noted that it's probably not the best entry point to Coltrane, but may give it a whirl anyway if it's the first record of his I happen to stumble onto for a fair price. And anyway, I don't plan to hear any one record, say Ascenion by Coltrane, and flip the "off" switch on exploring his other stuff if I don't enjoy it. I'm in this for the long haul, and it goes without saying that most of the musicians mentioned here did lots of different albums that may sound vastly different from one another.

I agree Duke Ellington has been under-represented on the thread so far. Armstrong too, but that's a pretty big leap back in the time machine for somebody starting from krautrock and psych.

I was trying to remember how I got from Bitches Brew (the first jazz album I bought) to '30s, '40s, and '50s jazz. I think maybe Miles' records with Gil Evans, Sketches of Spain in particular, made it easier for me to appreciate Ellington's big band sound. I got the Ken Burns Ellington compilation, wore that out for while, then started getting more Ellington. After that I was able to get more out of Armstrong, Parker, Monk, Coltrane, etc. than I had before.

Did you like Bitches Brew at first? I remember coming at it from jazz, I found it hard to listen to. There may also have been something flat about the remaster I had. Then one night I was driving around with a friend and he put on one of those Complete Bitches Brew Sessions discs, and the whole thing totally opened up for me. The non-BB material kind of helped me enjoy the BB stuff more. But the whole thing also sounded more open and had more sonic depth than I remembered.

Duke Ellington and Johnny Hodges - side by side
get this for the sweets edison solo on 'stompy jones'

Re Miles, I'd suggest In a Silent Way (xpost -- more ambient) and Jack Johnson (more rocking) as really accessible points of entry.

100% cosign.

Did you like Bitches Brew at first?

I didn't. I bought it and Kind of Blue on cassette, in close proximity, when I was about 14-15, and hated BB. Didn't "get it" until years later.

i finally found 'tribute to jack johnson' on vinyl and omg mclaughlin's dirty dirty guitar!!!!

also davis was late to the recording and mclaughlin and the bassist were just jamming and about two minutes in, he shows up and just throws down an amazing solo. the best part is that you can totally 'hear' davis entering the studio by what the musicians are playing. a++++ would recommend

Did you like Bitches Brew at first?

I liked it okay but not as much as I'd hoped. It wasn't quite what I expected -- I was probably looking for something more like Jack Johnson or Agharta.

the ellington/mingus/roach trio record might be a good entryway to duke if yr not ready for big band stuff.

big band like 30's big band or big band like Jazz Composer's Orchestra, Globe Unity, etc.?

sorry - missed the word "duke" in your post, Tyler

but the thing is, the phrase "if yr not ready for big band stuff" just strikes me as weird, because that stuff is what pop music used to be, what dance music used to be, and now we have software and samples to replace all those instruments, but i have trouble understanding how ellington's big band music would be something that's hard to get into, that you have to get ready in some way to appreciate.

Keep in mind I'm approaching jazz from the standpoint of loving stuff like krautrock, psych rock, "weird" folky stuff that gets a bit drone-y at times.

this makes it really easy to understand how big band wouldnt be immediate...

yeah, but presumably ilxor has heard pop music and seen old movies?

man i just spotted this thread

hey dude

this thread shall be rad

i know you've already got a list of recs a mile long but if i can just toss some pennies in the hat

-Giant Steps: this is the first jazz record that really got me by the throat, and in retrospect I think it's because the music was so fast & complex that it kind of melted all the harmonic information into gibberish and I just heard these bright luminous noises like dude was blowing sparks out of his horn

-Meditations: Easily my favorite jazz record. iirc I'm in the minority for even noticing it, but McCoy Tyner's piano playing on this record totally opened up piano jazz for me.

-Complete Art Tatum: See Giant Steps

I see Mats & The Thing have already been mentioned, I just wanted to shout out "Fire!," a collabo Mats was involved with that is suuuuuuuuper krautrocky at points. One of my fave records of the last few years, have a feeling it's right up yr alley.

so this is sorta a ridiculous deal if you don't have this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FBHCQO/ref=s9_simh_gw_p15_d1_i4?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-5&pf_rd_r=116E9TAM4WERR3FHKPMN&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470939291&pf_rd_i=507846
$3.99 for two CDs of monk/coltrane