Rolling 2011 thread where I buy and listen to jazz albums for the first time ever

think it's relevant to emphasize that what makes Macero's editing so amazing a lot of the time is how seamless it is - the juxtaposition of different takes/different material being cut together in a way that is not immediately apparent/jarring to the listener. really pretty revolutionary

in general, the miles legacy CDs are better than the "jazz masterpieces" i think. not just soundwise, but packaging, liners, etc.

The "RVG Editions" of Blue Note titles were all done a few years ago, and sound really good to me. In recent years, though, Rudy Van Gelder (the original producer/engineer back in the 50s, and the source of the "RVG" title) has begun to suffer hearing loss, so his more recent remasters for the Prestige/Fantasy label are not as good as his earlier work. Fortunately, there's not actually that much you can do to or with what were originally two- or four-track recordings, so it's mostly just a matter of them being pushed through the louderizing machine, not making instruments disappear or anything.

The most recent batch of Miles Davis remasters (the ones in the clear plastic jewel cases as opposed to the 80s ones with the blue border, or the 90s ones with the brown border) have been done (or supervised) by Bob Belden, and they sound fantastic across the board. The 60s/70s stuff has been the most improved, to my ear. A lot of stuff pops out that was once buried in mud.

Hey unperson, what was that Miles book you wrote?

best rule of thumb for me re: jazz recs is to buy high quality vinyl reissues

I'm a CD guy for convenience reasons. I listen to music mainly in four settings -- in the car (CD only); at work (CD only); while I'm running for 1+ hours at a time, longer runs (iPod, imported to iTunes from CDs); and at home in the evenings (vinyl, CD, or from my laptop in iTunes). Only the last of these four settings allows me to play vinyl, so I've always figured I'm best off sticking to CDs given how music fits into my lifestyle.

Figure I'll stick with the Columbia/Legacy Miles reissues as they seem common to find as well as good quality, but I'd welcome any thoughts on other reissued labels or big artists' catalogs.

Thanks for yr thoughts, unperson, very helpful. I've seen the RVG issue and the Blue Note issue of, say, that Eric Dolphy disc that somebody mentioned upthread. Is there a rule of thumb as to which is best?

The book's called Running The Voodoo Down: The Electric Music of Miles Davis. Amazon link.

Re Dolphy, the 1999 remaster sounds great.

holy shit had no idea that was you. great book!

was always kinda annoyed how Miles' bios/autobios tended to really gloss over the period

Cheers on that book mention, I'll keep an eye out for that one.

Money Jungle was the record that made jazz make sense for me; but any number of Mingus/Miles/Monk/Sun Ra records can work for ears trained to art rock, and I cant imagine going wrong with any recommendations.

I'll stick in one more from the funk era, 'cause it serves as such a great bridge to earlier jazz: Ellington's Afro-Eurasain Eclipse. It's orchestral swing, but with some serious rhythmic craziness.

yeah unperson, that book is great

oh, unperson is phil!

~~~GRAND REVEAL~~~

one of the interesting things about Miles' electric period is how well it exemplifies that weird split in jazz over whether not swing was essential to the genre. Miles (along with a lot of other people already mentioned in this thread) identified improvisation - and specifically collective improvisation - as the essential foundation of his music, swing was just a sort of formalized style that eventually lost its attraction. but for other hardcore "purists" (like Crouch) pretty much anything that didn't swing could not be acceptably classified as "jazz".

wars over genre conventions are fascinating sometimes

The most recent batch of Miles Davis remasters (the ones in the clear plastic jewel cases as opposed to the 80s ones with the blue border, or the 90s ones with the brown border) have been done (or supervised) by Bob Belden, and they sound fantastic across the board.

agree completely. i recently replaced all the 70s miles with these (to the extent that i could find them), and they sound fantastic. speaking of "rated x", get up with it is one of my favorite records period, and i'm glad someone thought to mention it. if i understand correctly, it's basically a clean-up collection of unused tracks, but that gives it an amazing looseness and wtf experimental variety. think that on "rated x" miles just plays sun ra organ chords. anyway, here's a tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOldheykk3Q

and now wanna read yr book, unperson. have heard good things about it.

Scribbled down the names of a few interesting-looking albums I saw yesterday. Any thoughts on these?

John Coltrane - Ascension
John Coltrane - Meditations
Miles Davis - Milestones
Miles Davis - Miles Smiles
Herbie Hancock - Man-Child
Thelonious Monk - Thelonious Monk w/ John Coltrane
Sun Ra - The Singles (double-CD set...)

all great

Ascension is my fave coltrane but it's not something you would jump straight into unless you really like free jazz.
Man-Child is Herbie's funkiest album and is absolutely wonderful in every way.

would get the carnegie hall monk/coltrane disc rather than Thelonious Monk w/ John Coltrane first

Ascension - not a good thing to listen to until you're deep into Coltrane. Meditations, on the other hand, is glorious. I've never been a big Sun Ra fan; the only stuff I like by him is from the early 70s, when he was big into synths. The 2CD set The Solar-Myth Approach is good, and there are some live bootlegs like Outer Space Employment Agency that are good, too.

Meditations is sometimes the greatest album ever by anyone, but it may take years for this to hit you.....it did me.

Milestones has the great modal title track, Miles Smiles is maybe his great cubist record (but possibly not a 'starter' record)

I don't own the Sun Ra but have heard most of it and it's great.

I don't have much to add re: those specific titles

I am a huge Sun Ra fan but I'm not sure what's on that Singles box. The very concept of a Sun Ra single is kinda hilarious as he's got to be one of the most non-single-oriented artists ever. but that doesn't mean there isn't good stuff on there.

Man-Child is more like an electro-funk record, great stuff

agree that Ascension is insane. a very bracing listen.

in fact I think I will listen to it now

Miles Davis - Miles Smiles

very posssibly my favorite miles album, and definitely my fave 2nd quintet one

I am a huge Sun Ra fan but I'm not sure what's on that Singles box.

Pretty sure this is the Sun Ra track listing:

http://www.amazon.com/Singles-Sun-Ra/dp/tracks/B0000014N7/ref=dp_tracks_all_1#disc_1

i agree w unperson, the RVG blue note editions sound perfectly fine for home listening.

i dunno what its like in the usa, but in europe so much classic jazz is now out of copyright - up to 1961 - you can pick up hundreds of stone classic albs for little more pennies. i esp like the sets issued by this bunch:

http://www.avidgroup.co.uk/acatalog/jazz.htm

Is there an essential series of Herbie Hancock CD reissues, or are these '90s issues with borders on the CD covers fine?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WDK9mrtLL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

again, the legacy reissues are probably the way to go

Ah okay, I hadn't seen Hancock reissues on Legacy yet. Thanks!

btw i haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, so i will mention it (because it completely blew my mind in high school):

john coltrane - live at birdland

also, doesn't seem to have been mentioned too much in this thread, but duke ellington duke ellington duke ellington

my favorite Duke is live at newport, but I admit I have only a cursory knowledge of his vast catalog. man, there was this one CD my coffee shop boss had in college that was some Duke Ellington live thing that was really heavily vibes-dominated (from the mid-60s iirc) but I can't recall the title and have never been able to find it... :(

also i still think that mingus mingus mingus mingus mingus is a great intro to mingus and jazz. a bunch of his more famous tunes, really well recorded and performed. radiohead sampled it, if that helps.

wouldn't recommend any of those as THE record to start with for miles, coltrane or herbie hancock, but second meditations, miles smiles and manchild anyway. all great & easily approachable. ascension is classic "difficult music.

I've never been a big Sun Ra fan; the only stuff I like by him is from the early 70s, when he was big into synths. The 2CD set The Solar-Myth Approach is good, and there are some live bootlegs like Outer Space Employment Agency that are good, too.

― that's not funny. (unperson), Friday, January 21, 2011 10:13 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

ha. feel completely the opposite. i've been curious about the sun ra set ilxor mentions. he's not thought of as a singles artist, his early work having been massively overshadowed by the massive electric arkestra stuff from the late 60s through early 80s, but i honestly prefer mr. ra's (mystery's) early small group recordings, stuff from the 50s and early/mid 60s. during the 50s, he ran a chicago-based record company that mostly issues singles, producing and backing on cuts for local musicians, so he really was a singles artist, at least for a while. want to explore his work as producer and session musician a little more. over the past few years a bunch of this stuff has been gathered up and released, but i'm dragging my heels/wallet.

^ responding there to ilxor's list

would get the carnegie hall monk/coltrane disc rather than Thelonious Monk w/ John Coltrane first

Either, or both -- these are great albums and a good way into both artists' catalogs.

I am on a Sun Ra kick this week. I heard Jazz in Silhouette for the first time and loved it, same for Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy, but in a blindfold test would never have known these were by the same guy. His work varies insanely in style and (unfortunately) recording quality. Lanquidity might be a good one for someone coming in with a funk/krautrock frame of reference.

I am a huge Sun Ra fan but I'm not sure what's on that Singles box. The very concept of a Sun Ra single is kinda hilarious as he's got to be one of the most non-single-oriented artists ever. but that doesn't mean there isn't good stuff on there.

― ex-heroin addict tricycle (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, January 21, 2011 12:16 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

he actually released a bunch of 45s iirc. the singles box is a lot of weird doo wop & pop-oriented jazz.

tbh i say wait on sun ra. hes got a massive discography & a lot of it makes more sense in the context of having heard more jazz

Lanquidity might be a good one for someone coming in with a funk/krautrock frame of reference.

― Brad C., Friday, January 21, 2011 10:38 AM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark

OTM. great record, unique in his catalog (though disco 3000 is comparable, i guess). was saying i prefer the early recordings, and i do, but lanquidity is a knockout.

Sun Ra's vocal groups recordings are some of my favourite things he did (including some classic Christmas songs!); the Spaceship Lullaby comp on Atavistic has a great selection.

tbh i love when he covered batman & pink elephants on parade

Yeah the Batman album is fun - though I don't think he's on all the tracks?

he actually released a bunch of 45s iirc. the singles box is a lot of weird doo wop & pop-oriented jazz.

oh right - yeah I've seen the individual LP reissues of this stuff but haven't sprung for any. looks pretty nuts but I wonder about the sound quality

its pretty whatever. i basically never pull that record out

honestly i think the best place to start w/ sun ra for n00bs is the 'greatest hits: easy listening for intergalactic travel'

tbh i say wait on sun ra. hes got a massive discography & a lot of it makes more sense in the context of having heard more jazz

Will probably wait on the Sun Ra singles set because it's $18.99 and I can buy 4-5 other discs for that price. But good to know as a heads up. To someone who's familiar with the track listing, are those mostly early Sun Ra recordings/singles, then?

it gives a good overview of his career & suggests diff directions for u to follow. hes the rare exception to the albums >>> comps rules in jazz, imo, as an introduction goes

thats an xp to my own post