1990 Pazz & Jop

also, it seems like metal as a genre has only in the last decade started to ooze out onto the "generalist's" radar. perhaps this resulted from the gradual unveiling of the appealingly arcane subgenres cultured in the 90s, perhaps from metal's incorporation of crit-friendly drone, psyche and shoegaze elements. or, i dunno, maybe it's the internet. seems like it's always the internet.

but xhuxk is not exactly into the kind of metal most mj's would for, u see. Def Leppard /= Napalm Death.

Poptimist pop-critic people still dont give a shit about metal. It's got an increased fashionability amount indie/p4k types because a lot of the 90s subgenres have parallels in the stuff we like, which is why you start seeing a lot of SunnO))), Kylesa and Converge—because that stuff is sonically close and even marketed to indie rock ppl somewhat

funny thing about people mentioning that metal made a strong showing in the 2009 poll is that pitchfork (noted music marketing agency) gave a lot of emphasis to metal in 2009. they ran a regular column on under-the-radar metal acts and frequently gave high praise to metal albums. seemed to me that they backed off on this in 2010, and, well...

i blame that on Scott S3w@rd myself. \m/

xp

Bizarrely metal was at its most pop as in POP & also POPULAR in the 80s, so it is a bit strange that it got ignored. But then again, I hated hair metal as much then as I do now so I'm not arsed that it got no acclaim. Slayer & Anthrax however working with beastie boys and public enemy I thought would have helped them. Metal fans took those 2 to their hearts so why not the other way?

xposts

Also, in 1990 there was like 230 critics and now there's 700, so you have a million metal critics all in the mix, I mean:

http://www.villagevoice.com/pazznjop/albums/2010/TWFycm93IG9mIHRoZSBTcGlyaXR8fHxBZ2FsbG9jaA==/

critwise hair metal was clearly at a generational disadvantage in the '80s, i think.

also, didn't Anthrax's version of "Bring the Noise" make the list in '91?

yep, it's no. 20.

Obv. I mean critics treated it the same way that contemporary critics treat the bands on the cover of Alternative Press and Bamboozle. Maybe there will be a critical reevaluation of mall emo in 20 years. And the future President Keyes can get all huffy about the 2010 Pazz And Jop not having A Day To Remember or Nevershoutnever on it

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres91.php

Poptimist pop-critic people still dont give a shit about metal. It's got an increased fashionability amount indie/p4k types because a lot of the 90s subgenres have parallels in the stuff we like, which is why you start seeing a lot of SunnO))), Kylesa and Converge—because that stuff is sonically close and even marketed to indie rock ppl somewhat

― Dan Watagatapitusperry (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:46 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^yeah I was going to say something like this, but I thought, is this really much different than grunge (except that grunge blew up big in the 'pop' sense)? Grunge did well in P&J didn't it? I dunno how Alice in Chains or Candlebox (not to mention Helmet or Pantera) but those bands were definitely metal disguised as grunge imo....

i know plenty of people who'd call themselves pop fans who'd also call themselves metal fans

Like Superunknown placed #11 in '94...if you're scanning that album as 'not-metal' you're being disingenuous imo...

xhuxk otm also with Metallica & 2 G n'R albums making the top 20

xxpost, that must be why Idolator and Popdust have been sweating that Bathtub Shitter EP so hard

2 G n'R albums making the top 20

― amphetamine enhanced scholar (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

gn'r are/were a special case, though, and by that point had exactly nothing to do with anyone's conception of heavy metal

which leaves just metallica: the very successful pop move of a long-running and critically-celebrated heavy metal band whose best and most influential work was clearly behind them

why isn't "1990 and 2010 were different times" a sufficient answer?

Plenty of "alt-rock" (Smashing Pumpkins) and "grunge" (Pearl Jam) and "industrial" (Nine Inch Nails) bands that would've been considered metal in any previous decade scored on Pazz & Jop in the '90s, yeah. (Though I think that post the first time I've ever heard anybody call Pantera grunge.)

And right, I definitely tried hard to bring in more metal voters in the '00s. Probably had some success, too, here and there, but (just like with country voters, Latin voters, etc.) obviously not enough to affect the overall tally. (Like Whiney was basically saying, metal voters are not going to place any albums in Pazz & Jop on their own; they need help from non-metal people.)

by that point had exactly nothing to do with anyone's conception of heavy metal

Pretty sure plenty of non-metal-obsessed people still considered GnR a hair-metal band.

Guns n' Roses: hair-metal::Led Zeppelin: psychedelia

And the future President Keyes can get all huffy about the 2010 Pazz And Jop not having A Day To Remember or Nevershoutnever on it

I was just pointing out a few now well-regarded albums that didn't make the list, and may have a better chance if the year was re-polled today. Honestly didn't even register of Jane's or Living Colour as Metal when I saw the list. And I'm in more of a tizzy than a huff.

Let's get huffy about these results.

Or these!