The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

if not laid, then a regular game of Catan, yeah

so tempted to post the pictures I took at the range

cool bro

lol

You're more likely to get children banned than guns.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, January 18, 2011 9:11 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

why america is great in 9 words

Sex -> laughing with pretty girls = Catan with friends ->shooting guns ->>>>>>>>>>>>>Angry Birds

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:19 AM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark

only one of these things is lethal to other people, and no I'm not talking about sex, ba dum bing!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350721/Girl-9-father-shot-dead-anti-immigrant-vigilantes-begged-life.html

man, arizona

The couple went to the front room - where Brisenia had spent the night on the sofa to be near her new dog - and spotted two people outside.

I want to throw up

maybe they were hunting quail?

it's a good thing the family had a gun of their own so they could protect themselves

'I can hear it happening,' Mrs Flores told the court describing how her daughter said: 'Why did you shoot my dad? Why did you shoot my mum?'

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Main_Page

Wow.

Hollywood and gun violence: two great tastes that taste great together!

jesus.

Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans
Jarneshia Broussard, 5, was eating a hot dog and beans

franks n beans day was always a winner @ the school cafeteria

ilx too good for beanie weenies?

Ohio is about to let people carry concealed weapons into bars and sports arenas, plus other venues where alcohol is plentiful. Should be awesome.

kid probably just wanted to hunt some grouse

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/09/05/2011-09-05_bloody_weekend_24_shot_in_24_hours_prompting_mayor_bloomberg_to_call_for_tougher.html

bloomberg otm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us/felons-finding-it-easy-to-regain-gun-rights.html

those republicans are sure tough on crime ;)

"Democrats went gun-shy in the 2000s. By 2008, Barack Obama had little to say about gun control, even trying to disavow his signature on a 1996 document signed by some Illinois legislators backing a ban on all handguns. In 2009, there were 65 pro-gun Democrats on Capitol Hill. The lobby owns the GOP, well, lock, stock, and barrel.

"Earlier this year, the Indiana state house passed -- with NRA backing -- a bill spelling out when citizens could kill police officers. Some prominent military leaders wanted military personnel to be able to discuss gun safety with troops as a way of trying to stem military suicides, many of which are committed with personally owned guns. The NRA was having none of it.

"And so it's no surprise that Obama and Mitt Romney (who once supported waiting periods and the assault weapons ban) produced mealy-mouthed statements on Friday that didn't even include the word 'gun'. Many Democrats from urban districts will continue to oppose the NRA. But the party will continue to quake, shooting after shooting after shooting, bodies upon bodies upon bodies.

"So this will happen again. And again, and again. In fact, as I said above, we are likely headed for a day in this country like the following. At a movie theater, in a mall, at a commuter rail platform, in a restaurant -- some glory-seeker opens fire. Most people duck and scatter, but a decent percentage of them produce their pieces. The gunman goes down like Warren Beatty in Bonnie and Clyde, but, since 'most people' aren't marksmen, maybe a few other people do too, and maybe, oh, a three year old.

"But hey. There's always a spoilage factor. Rights are sacred. From their cold, dead hands..."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/21/after-aurora-michael-tomasky-on-the-country-the-nra-wants-to-see.html

Jill Lepore's article v good on what utter and modern bullshit "The right of citizens to keep and bear arms" is.

I think this was quoted from that article in one of the other threads, but worth repeating:

That is the logic of the concealed-carry movement; that is how armed citizens have come to be patrolling the streets. That is not how civilians live. When carrying a concealed weapon for self-defense is understood not as a failure of civil society, to be mourned, but as an act of citizenship, to be vaunted, there is little civilian life left.

Hey I went to burning man with this guy!

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/19221052/dc-man-orders-television-online-receives-rifle-instead

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion/letters/Nose+Hill+Park+confrontation+makes+visitors+feel+unsafe/7050028/story.html

lol @ ppl from Michigan, basically

"have you been to our rodeo yet?"
"FUCK WHERE'S MY GUN"

The Great NYT debate about guns:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/us/politics/polls-find-opposition-to-stricter-gun-laws.html?hpw

I quickly moved between these two and my wife, replying, "Gentle-men, I have no need to talk with you, goodbye."

I hope he pronounced it with the hyphen and everything, and then firmly re-positioned his top hat and monocle as he strode away.

Wait, I know - it's because in Canada, only the criminals and the police carry handguns.

And yet their per capita firearm death rate is less than half of ours. Golly!

i don't even really want to talk about this but i just want to say somewhere that it's so hard not to be politically apathetic when i think about all of the mass shootings that have happened in the past month, many of which aren't even getting real press coverage (hi chicago), and knowing that there is no politician who is even going to try to do anything concrete or real about it

crazy

Nineteen people were shot across the South and West sides from Thursday evening through early Friday morning -- 13 of them wounded over a 30-minute period, authorities say.

The overnight shootings peaked between 9:15 p.m. and 9:45 p.m. That's when eight people, many of them teens, were shot at 79th Street and Essex Avenue about 9:30 p.m.

http://rumorsandrants.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/heston-cold-dead-hands.jpg

[Started by Manalishi aka roger adultery in April 2007

More like rifle assaultery

did roger adultery chime in on the internet with callous remarks today? Yes, yes he did.

oh god, where

on FB. Pull the "let's not politicize this" canard and then used hashtags

pulled, rather

What I don't get is - the pro-gun people, most (some?) are presumably with SOME restrictions on ownership (children, criminals, the unstable)? but the debate seems kinda all or nothing

american liberals have been far too reasonable for far too long. it encourages conservatives to stake extreme positions which they defend tooth and nail. this results in a "moderate" middle ground that tilts extremely conservative. as a result, i'm sick of starting from a position of fair-minded compromise. no private gun ownership in america. confiscate them all. criminalize and heavily penalize firearm ownership, trading and manufacture. let the gun nuts beg the sane people for piddling concessions.

Quoting this in full. Click through to see all the original links.

The statistics don't lie: guns kill thousands of American children every year. It is an epidemic of slaughter unparalleled in any other industrialized democracy, yet nothing is done. After every fresh massacre the public becomes further desensitized to the violence even as we are told we cannot and should not talk about the reasons why thousands of our children continue to die violent, bloody and needless deaths. American gun deaths are unique in their inability to generate political action: no one seemed to care much about the politicization of the deaths at Pearl Harbor or the World Trade Center. Those thousands of needless deaths required major political action. But the needless deaths of thousands of children at the barrel of a gun barely registers a mention from elected officials.

Why is this? One reason is that the National Rifle Association has a powerful lobby. That's the story we are often told, at any rate. But it turns out that the NRA isn't remotely as powerful as their mythmaking claims. The NRA wasted $11 million attempting to defeat the President in 2012, and a full two-thirds of the incumbents who lost their House seats were backed by the NRA. The NRA boost to a candidate this election amounted to less that 2% of the vote if that. So whence comes this incredible lobbying power in the face of which the nation is collectively paralyzed in addressing the deaths of thousands of our children (and many more adults) every single year?

The evidence seems to point to the desire by both political parties to cater to exurban and rural white men who are deeply committed to gun culture. The vast majority of the opposition to commonsense firearms control comes from this group. The Republican Party cannot win without them, and the Democratic Party is still loathe to give them up entirely. The demographics of the country have shifted, but not far enough for Democrats to blithely consign themselves to losing the "bubba" vote.

But why do exurban and rural white men care so much about this issue? Most of them don't actually hunt for sport, and hunting rifles aren't on the radar for gun control, anyway. Fear that hunting will be outlawed cannot explain it. There is a lot of talk among the Tea Party crowd about the "defense of liberty" that undergirds the rationale for the Second Amendment in the first place. But while that sort of talk is satisfying and high-minded for self-styled modern patriots, the reality belies the fantasy: the vast majority of these men don't actually see themselves gunning down police and soldiers in a hypothetical Communist state takeover, and the puny small arms in question wouldn't begin to stand up to the might of America's high-tech standing army. Being an insurgent in Iraq or Afghanistan is a dangerous occupation at best fueled in part by anger at outside invaders, and it's highly unlikely that these passionate gun advocates are hedging against a future as guerrilla warriors shooting American soldiers from duck blinds.

But it doesn't take much time reading through conservative websites to see what actually drives the desperate need to own high-priced killing machines. There is a vast, festering paranoia in conservative circles about the "looters" and "parasites" coming to take their hard-earned material possessions in the supposed coming debt-fueled collapse of society. There is continual worry about some dark-skinned assailant attempting to enter their home and potentially steal their property. Radio shock jocks react to stories about carjacking by demanding that more people carry guns in order to litter the streets with more "dead urban thugs." There are large segments of the population that want nothing more than to eliminate subsidies to the poor and then await the desperate masses who will supposedly come to their doorstep with a lead welcome. Ron Paul and Alex Jones' legions of followers have been told to "defend your supplies from those who refused to prepare" for the supposed riots coming when EBT cards are canceled. It's doesn't take much investigation of conservative media consumer attitudes to discover that these sentiments are shockingly widespread.

It sounds too awful to contemplate, but reality is a cruel mistress. It's painfully obvious what motivates the rabidly pro-gun base: a deep-seated desire to unwind the social contract and cleanse undesirables who are allegedly stealing their tax dollars. These murderous fear-fueled fantasies have no bearing on any events that will actually take place in the real world (except possibly some decades on by climate change induced migrations), but they are strong motivators nonetheless. Unfortunately, both political parties are also motivated to hold onto the voters who carry these nightmarish visions in their heads.

What this functionally means is that we as a nation are openly allowing thousands of our children to die every year so that certain segments of the population can role-play racist murder fantasies. It's not awful to admit that this is true. It's awful that it's happening, and that we as a nation must pay the price for it with the torn and mutilated bodies of our innocence and our future.

That's a really dumb broad brush description

There are large segments of the population that want nothing more than to eliminate subsidies to the poor and then await the desperate masses who will supposedly come to their doorstep with a lead welcome.

Based on the scary right-wing gun nuts I see on FB, seems sadly tom.

gah! I mean on the OTM - stupid spellcheck

Again, this whole thing might be more effectively talked about if people like the author of that article remembered that there are vast swathes of liberal democrat gunowners throughout the middle of the country.

well tbf those liberal gun owners aren't typically the sort that think we should have guns to prepare for the collapse of society, and if they are, they tend to be suspicious of cops, not criminals

Yeah exactly, that's why I'm saying th

approaching the argument by saying tht gunowners are all racists and hate poor people is stupid