post-super bowl XX chicago bears starting quarterbacks

who tf is Peter Tom Willis

yrs had tanks wtf

Quinn was signed by the Kansas City Brigade of the Arena Football League (AFL) during the 2006–2007 offseason, but retired due to injury. At present, Jonathan is the offensive coordinator for MidAmerica Nazarene University in Olathe, Kansas.

Willis currently lives in Valrico, Florida, and is an industrial buyer for Commercial Metals of Tampa.

Burris is also known as "Smilin' Hank" for his broad, perpetual grin.

Stenstrom played in four NFL seasons from 1996–1999 for the Chicago Bears and San Francisco 49ers. He started several games for the Bears during the 1998 season, who finished that season a dismal 4-12.

yrs had tanks wtf

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:49 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

ya it was in the orange bowl so they had tons of room to do crazy shit like bring out tanks to scare 5th graders away from smoking weed

u know i used to be the starting quarterback for the chicago bears - yah who the fuck didnt buddy and if you think im letting that aluminum go for under 25 a foot yr crazy

The (now-defunct) website www.tradecade.com embodied the antipathy that had built up for McNown. Maintained by two Chicago-area tech industry workers, the website featured animation of McNown being yanked away by a giant crane, as well as a petition requesting that the Bears divest themselves of him.

Entering the 1993 Draft, he was hyped as the next Joe Montana. In 2008, Mirer was inducted into the Indiana Football Hall of Fame.

ya it was in the orange bowl so they had tons of room to do crazy shit like bring out tanks to scare 5th graders away from smoking weed

― jordan s (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, December 2, 2008 2:53 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well ok doug flutie came to my graduation at my school which was just for my 5th grade class of like 40 kids AND he autographed all our diplomas so we didnt really need fancy tanks see cause we had doug flutie

Will is known for creating jargon on the fly such as "nicheify", "nichefication", "badassification" and other terms that he uses frequently in his everyday speak as well as at presentations. In 2007, he even used "passion bucket" in a presentation in homage to Dan Patrick and Rick Neuheisel.

"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"
"passion bucket"

Fuller was awarded a gold record and a platinum video award for the 1985 "Super Bowl Shuffle", for which he was the sixth of the ten solo singers.

^_^

oh mannn THIS THREAD

hahaha o wow i mean i know but i didnt REALLY KNOW lolololol

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, December 2, 2008 2:24 PM (45 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^^^

I voted Griese because his little table of starting positions with who came before and after him at the bottom of his wikipedia page is the most hilarious

voted for ort glorious ORT (o orton my orton) but slash definately gave me pause

i'm pretty sure kordell lives in atlanta w/his gay bf now

what the fuck is a "dare graduation"

Drug Abuse Resistance Education, better known as D.A.R.E. or DARE, is an international education program that seeks to prevent use of illegal drugs, membership in gangs, and violent behavior. D.A.R.E., which has expanded globally since its founding in 1983, is a demand-side drug control strategy of the U.S. War on Drugs. Students who enter the program sign a pledge not to use drugs or join gangs and are taught by local law enforcement about the dangers of drug use in an interactive in-school curriculum which lasts ten weeks.

at the end there is a graduation

"students who enter the program" = when the policeman comes to your classroom when you are in elementary school

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Darelogo.gif

totally worked btw - never joined a gang

i didnt know DARE was something you could actually join, i just thought they like... made shirts.

for a minute there i wasnt sure if they were responsible for that special POWER PACK/SPIDERMAN comic about combating child abuse but i'm p sure that didnt fall under their purview~

After being demoted to the fourth-string quarterback spot (most teams keep three) on the depth chart, behind Orton, Jeff Blake, and Kurt Kittner, Hutchinson was released by the Bears on August 30, 2005.

(most teams keep three)

^^^ ouch

i didnt know DARE was something you could actually join, i just thought they like... made shirts.

― cankles, Tuesday, December 2, 2008 3:20 PM (2 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

getting the shirt is part of joining - its like a gang

later in high school i had the pleasure of wearing the shirt ironically

haha @ kurt kittner - HOMETOWN HERO

dare just showed up and a policeman talked about some bullshit, usually just about, like, weed, and then he'd leave and it was over. there wasn't a graduation! it was like maybe once a week, for a month. what the hell!

yah thats pretty much what it was like for me except at the end doug flutie showed up

High School Career

Kittner led Schaumburg High School to a bout in the Illinois Class 6A championship against Naperville Central High School. Schaumburg lost the game by a score of 56-31, but that isn't where Kittner's true lore was born. One day standing atop the steps of Schaumburg High School Kittner sat during a passing period as he spotted the car of the dreaded "Stealth Man". Kittner was no fool to Stealth's douchbagery and promptly made the best of the opprotunity that was presenting itself. After cooling taking a sip of his large soda from Taco Bell Kittner readied himself for the most improbable pass of his life. As Stealth Man tore through the parking lot at an estimated 47.3 mph Kittner took the now epic pose of the cup in his left hand and a pointing in the direct path of the speeding car. Leading the car pefectly Kittner blasted his Mountain Dew towards the oncoming villian (who by the way was speeding towards a line of newborns which were both concieved and born on site of this epic battle). The pop was a smashed promptly on the hood of Stealth Man's car causing the car to veer out of control and back on to Schaumburg Road and cleared a path that is now Braintree Lane. Thusly, pushing Kittner a step closer to becoming a God amongst boys.

we had some random heavy metal brought to our high school to talk about not doing drugs or something, they played some horrible music and were real skeevy.

i regret that i wasn't there the year they brought these guys though:
http://www.thepowerteam.com/

(note it was a public school so technically they could only talk about motivational stuff and not jesus)

was i absent the day doug flutie showed up or something because i'll be really pissed

haha i should mention that i grew up in the town that contains boston college

i don't remember where i even had dare classes but i've decided they took place in junior high and ergo i somehow missed out on charles barkley

DARE is popular and well-funded, at least in the United States. However, numerous scientific studies of the program report that D.A.R.E. does not actually decrease drug use among graduates. Some studies have even indicated that there is an increased rate of drug use among D.A.R.E. graduates. In 2001, the Surgeon General of the United States placed the D.A.R.E. program in the category of "Does Not Work"

So, obv., Flutie.

All we got was some cop, what a rip off.

chris fragile chandelier for lolrams reasons

I've railed against the late-80s/early-90s "graffiti" fonts before, but really. I have to remind everyone that there's a place worse than D.A.R.E.:

http://www.the-solution.org/content/templates/solutions/images/banner.jpg

jim harbl

Steve Fuller- decent backup QB, won a playoff game and if hadn't gotten hurt after Jimmy Mac in 86, they might have had another shot at the Superbowl.

Mike Tomczak- much maligned, but really better than many of these clowns that followed. He hung around the NFL for a long time.
Doug Flutie- First start was a playoff game against the 49ers as a rookie. The Bears gave up on him after that embarrassment and in hind sight was mistake, as Flutie did eventually prove he could play in the NFL.

Jim Harbaugh- Harbaugh was kind of a scapegoat as he became the starter as the great Bears teams were in apogee with Payton gone and that good offensive line starting to fall apart. Ditka really screwed him big time pulling that yanking stunt in Minnesota and the fans turned on him big time. In hindsight, he was WAY freakin better than most of these bozos and could have been a solid for a lot longer. His scrambling ability bailed out a their O-line a bunch. The only game I ever saw in person was the Vikings versus the Bears like the weekend that Jordan retired for the first time (so probably 92?) and they sacked him like 7 times and hit him a dozen more. The line was so porous and yet every Bear fan listening to talk radio driving out talked about how much Harbaugh was to blame for the loss, which was complete insanity.

Peter Tom Willis- He was hyped up for about a half a year after he was drafted, I think because of the three name thing and because he had that Jesse Palmer thing that he kind of looked like a QB. He was also one of many Florida State QBs that put up huge numbers in college and not do squat in the pros.

Will Furrer- Don't even remember the dude.

Erik Kramer- He actually was pretty decent when healthy. He had one good season with the Bears.

Steve Walsh- See Peter Tom Willis and insert Miami of Florida where it says Florida State.

Dave Kreig- This guy was a pretty good QB for a long time, not heralded as he played in Seattle. He played for the Bears late in his career and had a few decent games on very middling Bears clubs. I think he was there in the Wannstadt 7-9 into infinity years.

Rick Mirer- The guy had a decent rookie year at Seattle then turned to suck. The Bears cannot help but get rooked on Notre Dame guys, but hey Mirer kept getting a job for ten years or more.

Steve Stenstrom & Moses Moreno- Don't remember, I didn't watch as much football for a couple of years as I used to have to work a bunch of Sundays at a restaurant.

Shane Matthews- See Steve Walsh, insert Florida in place of 'The U'.

Cade McNown- Flush that #1 down the toilet. He looked cool throwing from the left side though.

Jim Miller- One of my favorites, as the dude was a total meatball. His press conference after he got busted for steroids was hilarious. He was decent, but couldn't stay healthy after having the one OK year.

Chris Chandler- Chandler was a decent QB that could never stay healthy. When he could play, he did alright and put up some results like in Atlanta. The guy played in the NFL forever and ended up with the Bears at the end of his career.

Henry Burris- This dude was terrible. He was one of the worse ones, even more so then Krenzel. That season the Bears went through everyone and a bucket playing QB and I don't think that Burris guy could of started at Illinois, let alone the Bears. Burris started either a Monday night or Sunday night game and it was one of the most freaking ugly games a QB could have.

Kordell Stewart- The guy had some talent and maybe if just left as a 'slash' player, he might have had more success. He took the brunt of the Steelers long time failures in the playoffs, some much deserved. It wasn't a terrible idea giving him a shot, but I think the failure seemed to kind of break him a bit. When he first started though, he was an exciting player for a season or two.

Rex Grossman- In the end, see Shane Matthews but give him a bunch more starts.

Jonathan Quinn- Another guy that got a shot in lost season. He didn't have much.

Craig Krenzel- Dude gave it the old college try, but he just didn't have the chops. I kind of liked the guy, but he didn't have much of an arm.

Chad Hutchinson- This is a backup that got hyped, a signing for the Bears a bit like Steve Walsh, who started as a backup with the Cowboys. He had some big ass teeth.

Kyle Orton- I like the guy and there have been some decent QBs to come out of Purdue, so I hope for the best.

Brian Griese- Dude was following Elway, his dad is a Hall of Fame QB and he ended up a QB for the Bears -- i.e. he was screwed from jump street.

Jeff Blake is one of my favorite of the more obscure Bears QBs. That dude had a cannon of the arm and a couple of decent years with the Bengals. If he would have ended up with a better club early in his career, things might have been different.

Vince Evans- The guy had a really good arm and started a bit before Jimmy Mac. He hung around the NFL for a long time afterwards.

Bob Avellini- The dude would run for more yards than pass some games. Payton always got more running the ball for more yards than Avellini would thrown.

Mike Phipps - Dude was a big time first round draft bust that ended up with the Bears for a while before Jimmy Mac.

earlnash ur a quality poster A++

yah srsly crazy recall dude

voted Tomczak

I grew up in northern Indiana in the 70s/80s and had a Bears stocking hat when I was like 3. My uncle was a die-hard Bears fan and he got me into watching football, as he lived with my grandma and we would spend Sundays over at there house quite a bit. I probably saw 85-90% of the Bears games from like 1980 to 1992. I was a total football junkie when I was a kid, so 80s football up until when the Cowboys would maul the Bills, I know really well. I can remember watching like the Cowboys versus the Rams in the playoffs in like 79 (Roger Staubach at QB for the Cowboys) and Earl Campbell with the Oilers pretty well, as even when I was like 9 or 10 years old, I'd watch football and read comic books on Sundays.

I worked a lot of Sundays during the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys era (which was kind of cruddy anyway as either them or the Niners were going to win it all) until say 96 when I finally got done with school, started working 8 to 5 and could watch football again on weekends.

i always sort of appreciated harbaugh and the straight up professional michigan qb in general. brady's sort of upped the ante, but i still think of there being sort of a "michigan style."

here's the Burris line from his one and only start (against the Bucs)

7-19 78yds 0Td's 4INT

The guy who replaced him in the game, Cory Sauter, is not even listed in the poll.

Future star and new Bears quarterback Mitch Trubinsky

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6952a4578bd79a6afcf3cc1da64888ba1d89fa38/c=1044-211-3000-1682&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2017/02/27/USATODAY/USATODAY/636238158366204544-XXX-MITCH-TRUBISKY-15522-89132579.JPG

*mitchell

https://i.giphy.com/zyK16GtMv5sas.gif

ALL I GOT TO SAY TO BEARS FANS IS YOU SHOULD F'N WISH WE HAD ANDY DALTON THE PAST TEN YEARS.

Justin Fields 'might' and it is a big f'n might end up good but Andy Dalton would be the best QB in Bears history with his career numbers and that is a fact.

He did not play all that bad for a crap Dallas team with no training camp, getting Covid and hurt when he started out.

Just sayin' - lay off Opie, he's a pretty good dude.

Name the last Ohio State QB that was a decent pro... I'm just saying you won't like the answer as there has not been one.

Heck you can make and argument that Tomczak is the answer to the question as at least he played 15 seasons in the pros.

That's the truth!

write-in vote for Romy Madley Croft

Chase Daniel:

For the 2018 regular season, he served as the backup to Mitchell Trubisky. In week four, he saw action against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers on a trick play nicknamed "Willy Wonka", which had been designed by coach Matt Nagy and the quarterbacks and named by Daniel days before the game.[76][77] On the Buccaneers' three-yard line, Daniel joined Trubisky in the backfield in the shotgun formation. Before the play began, receiver Taylor Gabriel and tight end Trey Burton moved along the line of scrimmage to confuse the defense. Upon receiving the snap, Trubisky quickly pitched the ball forward to Gabriel on a shovel pass. Trubisky then faked a hand-off to Daniel as Gabriel scored the touchdown.[78]

Andy Dalton:

On March 17, 2021, the Bears signed Dalton to a one-year contract worth $10 million, and up to $13 million in incentives.[154] Dalton started the first two games before suffering a knee injury.[155] He was then relegated to the backup quarterback after Justin Fields was named the starter.[156] Against the Baltimore Ravens in Week 11, Dalton entered the game in the third quarter after Fields left the game with a rib injury. Dalton threw for 201 yards and two touchdowns as the Bears lost 13–16.[157] In the 2021 season, Dalton passed for 1,512 yards, eight touchdowns, and nine interceptions in eight games.[158]

Nick Foles:

Foles was traded to the Chicago Bears in exchange for a compensatory fourth-round 2020 NFL Draft pick on March 31, 2020.[118] He competed with Mitchell Trubisky for the starting quarterback position during Training Camp, eventually losing and becoming the backup.[119]

great revive

I guess this is in honor of Mitch Trubisky being benched by a second club.

Got to say that one interception Mitchy threw this week was a straight up Sexy Rexy f'it i'm going deep toss.

Andy Dalton is still better than Justin Fields. OSU QBs are all false gold.

Some experts caution patience with Fields, saw one say being the Bears QB was “the worst position in football right now”, but even in that supposed context he’s looking lost. It’s just amazing to me how badly they whiff on QBs, every time out. The Browns whiffed on Mayfield when they could have gone with Josh Allen, but when he was on his game Mayfield was markedly better than Trubisky. Fields makes Trubisky look like Mayfield, though. I know it’s always hard to predict with these guys but you’d think they’d even accidentally draft a Mahomes once in awhile, or sign a backup who turns into a surprise star, but instead it’s just…*gestures upthread*

I really feel like evaluating QBs in their first few seasons has been skewed by some of the early success stories that happened in recent years, which prior to this decade, were pretty atypical. Dan Fouts took four years to get a starting job, Elway was terrible for four years, Chargers were ready to move on from Brees after 3, drafted his replacement, and he had his best season to that point in his 4th year.

part of it is how the rules have changed more and more over the years to benefit offense, but it's still very wild that we have Herberts and Dak Prescott type situations as often as we have (and yet we've also seen a lot of regression for QB wunderkids as well in subsequent seasons).

that said, the little I've seen of Fields hasn't impressed me much. I'm still of the belief a young QB should ride the pine his first year and learn from the bench and practice, with a journeyman to learn from as a starter.

There is that too. Probably the most ideal situation is the Green Bay method, to have an older QB who refuses to leave and draft your next stud and torture him by leaving him on the bench for several seasons.

It is hard to tell. No one really thought Dak Prescott would have been that good coming out of college. Then you got guys like Tony Romo or Kurt Warner that literally come out of nowhere.

I was curious to see how Mitch would do with the Steelers. It has been a while, but there used to be quite a few guys that seemed to figure it out way later.

Rich Gannon is one of those types who was a heck of an athlete but they seemed raw early in their career.

Gannon was a weird one, one of those dudes that was middling-to-'pretty good' at best for his entire career and then managed to become a stud in a defense-heavy era (I guess having Brown and Rice didn't hurt).

speaking of, football from 2000-2006 or so was sooooooooooo dire from an offensive standpoint, like, all offenses did back then was run one feature back into the ground, if you averaged 350 yards/game you were a league leading offense lmao. my Fins won their last playoff game in 2000 with Jay Fiedler, an offense that averaged under 300 yards/game and whose defense did all the scoring.

everyone used to say "the defenses are just that good" as a defense, but in that same era, you had no-name running backs putting up 1300-1400 yard seasons, and run defense was abysmal.

I really feel like NFL executives breathed a sigh of relief when Rodgers emerged as the next big stud because all of the greats of the 80s/90s were almost gone, and there weren't a whole lot of big name successors...and then Rodgers et al kind of brought on a QB renaissance, no doubt aided by the fact that rules continued to be bent towards the passing game, and teams realized their RBs that they ran 450 times a season had to retire by age 29, so they went back to RB by committee

I kinda think NFL is running out of the QBs to an extent. They had a window where they had all these guys (Big Ben, Mannings, Brees etc...)

While they have gotten a couple new elite ones, the drop off is probably more severe now than it's been and there is more middling in the Qb game.

I think that is where Shanahan is pretty smart with the Niners. He's got an offense that kinda works without not having to have the Ferrari Qb.

yeah we've started to start cycling through another weak era. we won't see an era like 2000-2006 again, but definitely more teams than in years past with QB issues. lots of QBs who were one year wonders and fell off too.

Gannon is sort of the Dave Stewart of football: a journeyman who suddenly becomes this late-emerging stud. There was that four year stretch where he was the best around.

I do think the Bears should give Fields a slightly longer leash, this season is a write off and his situation is so bad, they have to be fair to him and keep expectations maybe not “low” but realistic. I’m still not really that hopeful, though.

I'm really surprised the player's union hasn't lobbied for a rule that QBs can't be drafted, they just openly negotiate on open market so they're free to go to a team that doesn't get them sacked 50 times their first year and use up their brain and body up before they even started

It would be the "David Carr rule"

Hmm 🧐

Ok, so he maybe can play a little bit. It would figure the Bears offense would start scoring 30 a game when the defense gives up 35+ a game.

Most rushing yards in a single game by a QB ever, wow

Didn’t know where else to put this but everyone is excited about the release of Cocaine Bear

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/sam-hurd-released-release-date-chicago-bears/12868402/

Nathan Peterman

On January 4, 2023, Peterman was named the starter for the Week 18 matchup against the Minnesota Vikings, replacing Justin Fields who was ruled out for a sore hip. Peterman threw for 114 yards and a touchdown in the 29-13 loss.

2023 season

Peterman was re-signed to a one-year deal on March 31, 2023.[91] He was then released as part of the final roster moves for the Bears on August 29.[92] However, the Bears re-signed Peterman to the active roster on August 31.[93] He was named the second-string option behind starter Justin Fields and ahead of undrafted rookie Tyson Bagent, beating out veteran PJ Walker for the role.[94] On September 20, Peterman was cut for a second time.[95] The next day, he was again re-signed.[96] However, he was demoted to third string before Week 4, in favor of an increasingly impressive Bagent.[97]

the increasingly impressive Tyson Bagent

Bagent made his NFL debut for the Bears against the Minnesota Vikings on October 15 after Fields left the game with an injury.[42] He completed 10-of-14 passes for 83 yards, with one rushing touchdown, a fumble and an interception en route to a 19–13 loss.[42] Due to Fields's injury, Bagent would be announced as the starter for the Bears Week 7 game against the Las Vegas Raiders.[43] He completed 21-of-29 passes for 162 yards, rushed 24 yards, and also threw one passing touchdown in a 30–12 win.[44] It was then announced that Bagent would again be the starter for Week 8 against Los Angeles Chargers.[45] On Sunday Night Football, Bagent went 25-of-37 for 232 yards, two interceptions and also had a rushing touchdown in the 30–13 loss.

don't want to forget Trevor Siemian

On March 29, 2022, Siemian signed a two-year contract with the Chicago Bears.[94] Siemian made his Bears debut in a 29-49 loss to the Dallas Cowboys going 1 of 1 for 5 yards.[95]

After Justin Fields suffered an injury in the Week 11,[96] Siemian was given his first start as a Bear in Week 12 against his former team, the New York Jets. Siemian suffered an oblique injury during pregame warmups. The Bears initially announced their third-string quarterback, Nathan Peterman, would start the game,[97] but Siemian still made the start. He completed 14 of 25 passes for 179 yards, while throwing a touchdown and an interception in a 31–10 loss.[98]

On December 3, Siemian was placed on injured reserve to undergo season-ending surgery to repair his oblique injury.[99][100]

Siemian was released on March 16, 2023, after the Bears signed P. J. Walker.

full updated list, bold are the new additions since the poll. I'm a bit, uh, bear-ish on Fields at this point.

Mike Tomczak
Steve Fuller
Doug Flutie
Mike Hohensee
Steve Bradley
Jim Harbaugh
Peter Tom Willis
Will Furrer
Steve Walsh
Erik Kramer
Dave Krieg
Rick Mirer
Steve Stenstrom
Moses Moreno
Shane Matthews
Cade McNown
Jim Miller
Cade McNown
Shane Matthews
Chris Chandler
Henry Burris
Kordell Stewart
Rex Grossman
Craig Krenzel
Chad Hutchinson
Jonathan Quinn
Kyle Orton
Brian Griese
Jay Cutler
Todd Collins
Caleb Hanie
Josh McCown
Jason Campbell
Jimmy Clausen
Matt Barkley
Brian Hoyer
Mitchell Trubisky
Mike Glennon
Chase Daniel
Justin Fields
Andy Dalton
Nick Foles
Trevor Siemian
Nathan Peterman
Tyson Bagent

really felt like Rex had the biggest potential to be "the guy" and then just couldn't get out of his own way.

it was just wild seeing the initial excitement about Grossman when he returned from his injury and started playing in 2005 and then the first few games of 2006 and then he has that one terrible game against Arizona and it seemed like he became that guy instead rather than just moving on from it.

but prior to that game he looked like a world-beater! still got them to the Super Bowl that year, but boy were they limping in

actually kind of amazing, he posted QB ratings of 98.6, 148, 100.5, 101.2 in four of his first five games.

In his last 11, he posted: 10.2, 36.8, 23.7, 1.3, 0.0

and yet every other game he played well, lol. very feast or famine

Kyle Orton's a dude who could never hold onto the job nowadays. even in this bad QBing season, you couldn't rely on the run game and defense as much as he had to.

that list makes me feel like *I* have CTE. did Dalton, Foles, and Siemian really start games for the Chicago Bears? I do not remember that at all.

I remembered Dalton. did not remember the other two

I do remember Dalton signing with them but forgot he actually started the season instead of Fields. now that I think about it he got hurt pretty quickly.

"he got hurt pretty quickly" seems to be the fate of everyone who lines up behind center in Chicago.

the biggest indictment of Bears QBs is to look at every single one objectively and ask if they were a disappointment or if they were surprisingly not bad. and the list of "better than expected" is basically only Grossman, Orton, and Kramer. And the best QB on the list is *still* Cutler, who has to be filed under "disappointment".