I think there are lots of reasonable measure you can take that would fall short of banning guns outright. but people like to pretend that our current laws and the current system of selling guns is more than adequate to prevent abuse of the system. w/e
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Also there's no accountability when you just give some bloke (e.g.) a rifle for the culling of deer numbers. Let's say that bloke also takes out a load of endangered animals that are crapping on his driveway.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:53 (thirteen years ago) link
trying to change the issue to be able cheeseburgers and cars is ridiculous - yeah we have to fix lots of other huge problems in our society! we should also get on that! that doesn't mean we should let crazy people buy machine guns!
― iatee, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link
be about
we don't have blokes in america so i think your post is irrelevant
― J0rdan S., Monday, 10 January 2011 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link
like yeah I'd totally be down with only banning handguns and letting the high power competitive rifle shooters have at it or w/e. but then it makes it harder to resist the boot of tyranny oh no
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm from around the bloke
― Yutte Hermsgervørdenbrøtbørda (Eisbaer), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:55 (thirteen years ago) link
as has been previously discussed iatee (and i) believe that everyone in america should move to new hampshire and cars should be outlawed--banning guns seems more feasible at this point so thats what im going for
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:55 (thirteen years ago) link
How is it 'pretending' dayo? We don't live in a lawless society with gun violence on every street corner. What would be 'good enough' for you? What numbers are you looking for?
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
yes there is
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link
and I think comparing guns to other causes of death in america like cheeseburgers or cars or tobacco is fallacious because guns possess certain properties that those other things just don't. guns are designed to cause damage to other things. that is their only purpose. they are designed to do so in a way that doesn't damage the user of the gun. the damage done is potentially lethal. etc. etc.
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link
btw I'm not sure 'fast food is worse' is on point itt
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:56 (thirteen years ago) link
(xxxxxxxxxxxxxp)
trying to change the issue to be able cheeseburgers and cars is ridiculous - yeah we have to fix lots of other huge problems in our society! we should also get on that! that doesn't mean we should let crazy people buy machine guns!― iatee, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:54 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
― iatee, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:54 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark
w/e dude, that was not what i was suggesting. and yeah guys duh i fucking know that it's apples and oranges.
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:57 (thirteen years ago) link
With even a little planning and skill, you can do a lot of damage with a "high power competitive rifle." Charles Whitman, Lee Harvey Oswald, perhaps you've heard of them.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:57 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:56 AM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark
how about a homicide rate similar to the UK's or any other developed country that outlaws guns
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:57 (thirteen years ago) link
seriously, i grew up around people who hunted -- all of whom were law-abiding and sane, and knew how to handle guns responsibly. i never saw any point in needlessly antagonizing them, even if i thought that NRA rhetoric was either wrong or wacked out.
― Yutte Hermsgervørdenbrøtbørda (Eisbaer), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:57 (thirteen years ago) link
that doesn't mean we should let crazy people buy machine guns!
i agree! and we don't let them, or in fact almost anybody buy machine guns, so i dont really know what that has to do with anything
― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:57 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:57 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
dogg compare the homicide rate w/ handguns vs rifles
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:58 (thirteen years ago) link
oh why am i being serious on this thread again
the point isn't that they're the same, it's that the outright banning of guns would be about as feasible as banning guns. neither will ever happen. and, more to the point, banning fast food or guns or cars doesn't really address why exactly people die from those things.
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:58 (thirteen years ago) link
lol typo
and I think comparing guns to other causes of death in america like cheeseburgers or cars or tobacco is fallacious because guns possess certain properties that those other things just don't. guns are designed to cause damage to other things. that is their only purpose. they are designed to do so in a way that doesn't damage the user of the gun. the damage done is potentially lethal. etc. etc/
When you're talking public health and safety, the spirit of the inanimate object is pretty irrelevant. It doesn't matter what purpose on Earth guns have, or cheeseburgers have, or whatever. If the argument is about what poses the greatest harm to the greatest number of people, metaphysics don't come into play.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 03:58 (thirteen years ago) link
this remains epically retarded, fwiwWith even a little planning and skill, you can do a lot of damage with a "high power competitive rifle." Charles Whitman, Lee Harvey Oswald, perhaps you've heard of them.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:57 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark
how about making gun training mandatory, making people go through very thorough background checks, psychiatrical evaluation, or how about allowing guns and banning ammo except for use at gun ranges where competitive high power rifle shooting takes place? there are lots of ways to make society safer without banning guns outright.
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:59 (thirteen years ago) link
youd think "ban handguns" would be a good compromise but apparently "rifles can kill people too" is an argument to... not ban anything??
ps guns dont have spirits
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:59 (thirteen years ago) link
woah, quick thread. super xp:
Eco-hunting isn't just about killing animals though. I know that with elephants you have to cull an entire family, otherwise the remaining members go on a big psycho rampage, so you can't just give a bloke a rifle and say 'cull elephants plz'. Dunno about deer but I assume there are also correct and incorrect ways to manage deer populations.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:51 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
sorry if this sounds harsh, but this post reads to me like you feel like you have a greater understanding of 'animal population management' or w/e you wanna call it than the people who are deeply invested in it just because you remember some fact about elephants in an article you read somewhere? i'm sure they have at least some, slight, tiny idea about what they're doing when they're out there bagging deer
― sleepingbag, Monday, 10 January 2011 03:59 (thirteen years ago) link
there's no 2nd amendment about the right of a well-fed militia and the right to eat cheeseburgers not to be infringed, though
― Yutte Hermsgervørdenbrøtbørda (Eisbaer), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:00 (thirteen years ago) link
also apparently 75% of the 10k gun homicides are due to handguns, which, if it hasn't been made before, is probably the single most compelling argument for their severe restriction or banning.
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:00 (thirteen years ago) link
So, are those rates entirely based upon access to weapons, or are other factors in play?
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:00 (thirteen years ago) link
i believe i pointed this out in another thread, but deer hunting is a literal necessity in this country - they're giant rats whose population can no longer be kept in check by diminished predator populations
xp
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 14:48 (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
OTFM. my house is in an area where deer are EVERYWHERE. at night they hang out in herds on people's front lawns and shit everywhere. then they run out into the road and get run over. so in addition to live deer there are dead deer everywhere too.
they're a nuisance.
― Young Guns aside, the western is not my favorite genre. (latebloomer), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:01 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:58 AM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark
wait why doesn't it matter?
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:01 (thirteen years ago) link
how about ban handguns and when gangbangers start killing each other with high powered assault rifles we ban those too
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:01 (thirteen years ago) link
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:02 (thirteen years ago) link
nabs already made the most compelling post about the inherent evil of guns-as-objects, can we not even bother
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:02 (thirteen years ago) link
It doesn't matter what purpose on Earth guns have, or cheeseburgers have, or whatever.
It absolutely does! Cheeseburgers at least do positive things like keep people alive in some way. Guns only exist to inflict damage.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:02 (thirteen years ago) link
oh i know all about deer and the problems they cause
max, you lived in Princeton when they were having the debate about allowing sharpshooters to kill deer from helicopters right?!?
― Yutte Hermsgervørdenbrøtbørda (Eisbaer), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:03 (thirteen years ago) link
― sleepingbag, Monday, 10 January 2011 14:59 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
You're a sock, right? Not responding to this.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:03 (thirteen years ago) link
haha yeah that was awesome xp
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:03 (thirteen years ago) link
If your argument is that guns pose a risk to the health and safety of the general population, leave out whatever you think their purpose is.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:03 (thirteen years ago) link
enh if some guy uses a gun to shoot a deer and then eats it (tho man why would you w/CWD) its proven itself as useful as a cheeseburger. stupid argument imo
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:04 (thirteen years ago) link
Bang Gangbanners.
― Kerm, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:04 (thirteen years ago) link
It's drawing a distinction irrationally. Handguns are bad because criminals use them! But rifles, particularly with wooden stocks, don't look nearly as scary or seem as weird. But in reality, if someone wants to go batshit insane - and this started out arguing about mass shootings, mind you - a .308 hunting or competition rifle is going to be more than adequate to fuck up whatever the nutzo wants to fuck up.― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 12:02 PM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark
it's also harder to conceal a high powered rifle *shrug*
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:04 (thirteen years ago) link
what does it even mean, policy isn't spiritual
it's pretty hard to misuse a cheeseburger and kill someone with it. it's pretty easy to misuse a gun and kill somebody with it. idk why I'm even bothering
― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:05 (thirteen years ago) link
It's drawing a distinction irrationally. Handguns are bad because criminals use them! But rifles, particularly with wooden stocks, don't look nearly as scary or seem as weird.
yeah its totally irrational
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Ushomicidesbyweapon.svg
― max, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:05 (thirteen years ago) link
if you ban fast food before banning guns, there's gonna be a lot of pissed-off people with guns.
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:05 (thirteen years ago) link
It's not that hard to conceal a rifle, actually.
"Ban handguns but leave rifles" is the kind of half-assed intellectual dishonesty that lets pro-lifers argue "but abortion is okay in the case of rape and incest." If it's about the ability to inflict damage (or the life of the fetus), the psychological issues in play (handguns are scary, etc.) don't come into play.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Max, can you kill someone with a "high power competition rifle"?
enhhhhhhh milo, the concealment thing is actually pretty central to handgun violence, i'd hazard. you can't shove a .308 down the front of your pants and walk into a convenience store like it isnt a thing. it might be "intellectually dishonest," but it certainly doesn't ignore how handguns are used
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 04:08 (thirteen years ago) link
blunt objects due for a comeback
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 04:09 (thirteen years ago) link