The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

halo 19 would probably be literal hunting, though.

i believe i pointed this out in another thread, but deer hunting is a literal necessity in this country - they're giant rats whose population can no longer be kept in check by diminished predator populations

xp

wait guys i shot competitive high power rifle while living in a metropolitan area, so i would like some help trying to figure out if i am in the midwestern dumbshit yokel hunter category or the psycho right-wing conceal carry future murderer one.

gbx, why isn't a distinction as to the type of firearm legit?

we grant some speech protection and other speech none? why not guns?

Where to park my howitzer?

the boot of deer tyranny

ive mentioned this on this thread before (and i think milo mentioned it more recently) but lots of the distinctions made between guns re:lethality are totally wrongheaded but sound comforting to people that dont really know much about firearms. xxpost

i believe i pointed this out in another thread, but deer hunting is a literal necessity in this country - they're giant rats whose population can no longer be kept in check by diminished predator populations

xp

― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 14:48 (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Eco-hunting isn't just about killing animals though. I know that with elephants you have to cull an entire family, otherwise the remaining members go on a big psycho rampage, so you can't just give a bloke a rifle and say 'cull elephants plz'. Dunno about deer but I assume there are also correct and incorrect ways to manage deer populations.

i suggested banning handguns on this very thread like 3 years ago and ppl were all, what about competitive handgun shooters, and that was the point at which i just threw up my hands and was like, whatever

anyway heart disease kills more people than anything else in the united states (25%) and even though cheeseburgers don't actually kill ppl instantaneously like bullets do, banning fast food would probably do more for the public good than banning guns. and like if you happen to eat big macs responsible who fucking cares, get a new food you fat fuck

xp hunt3r i'm actually willing to make distinctions, but max et al are arguing that we should ban guns, full stop

max sb'd guns 3 years ago and guns have yet to get 51'd -- how is this possible

i have nothing against hunters, but handguns are something else. apparently, this makes me unacceptable to either side of this debate.

I think there are lots of reasonable measure you can take that would fall short of banning guns outright. but people like to pretend that our current laws and the current system of selling guns is more than adequate to prevent abuse of the system. w/e

Also there's no accountability when you just give some bloke (e.g.) a rifle for the culling of deer numbers. Let's say that bloke also takes out a load of endangered animals that are crapping on his driveway.

trying to change the issue to be able cheeseburgers and cars is ridiculous - yeah we have to fix lots of other huge problems in our society! we should also get on that! that doesn't mean we should let crazy people buy machine guns!

be about

we don't have blokes in america so i think your post is irrelevant

like yeah I'd totally be down with only banning handguns and letting the high power competitive rifle shooters have at it or w/e. but then it makes it harder to resist the boot of tyranny oh no

i'm from around the bloke

as has been previously discussed iatee (and i) believe that everyone in america should move to new hampshire and cars should be outlawed--banning guns seems more feasible at this point so thats what im going for

How is it 'pretending' dayo? We don't live in a lawless society with gun violence on every street corner. What would be 'good enough' for you? What numbers are you looking for?

Also there's no accountability when you just give some bloke (e.g.) a rifle for the culling of deer numbers. Let's say that bloke also takes out a load of endangered animals that are crapping on his driveway.

― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yes there is

and I think comparing guns to other causes of death in america like cheeseburgers or cars or tobacco is fallacious because guns possess certain properties that those other things just don't. guns are designed to cause damage to other things. that is their only purpose. they are designed to do so in a way that doesn't damage the user of the gun. the damage done is potentially lethal. etc. etc.

btw I'm not sure 'fast food is worse' is on point itt

(xxxxxxxxxxxxxp)

trying to change the issue to be able cheeseburgers and cars is ridiculous - yeah we have to fix lots of other huge problems in our society! we should also get on that! that doesn't mean we should let crazy people buy machine guns!

― iatee, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:54 PM (22 seconds ago) Bookmark

w/e dude, that was not what i was suggesting. and yeah guys duh i fucking know that it's apples and oranges.

like yeah I'd totally be down with only banning handguns and letting the high power competitive rifle shooters have at it or w/e. but then it makes it harder to resist the boot of tyranny oh no

With even a little planning and skill, you can do a lot of damage with a "high power competitive rifle." Charles Whitman, Lee Harvey Oswald, perhaps you've heard of them.

How is it 'pretending' dayo? We don't live in a lawless society with gun violence on every street corner. What would be 'good enough' for you? What numbers are you looking for?

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:56 AM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark

how about a homicide rate similar to the UK's or any other developed country that outlaws guns

seriously, i grew up around people who hunted -- all of whom were law-abiding and sane, and knew how to handle guns responsibly. i never saw any point in needlessly antagonizing them, even if i thought that NRA rhetoric was either wrong or wacked out.

that doesn't mean we should let crazy people buy machine guns!

i agree! and we don't let them, or in fact almost anybody buy machine guns, so i dont really know what that has to do with anything

With even a little planning and skill, you can do a lot of damage with a "high power competitive rifle." Charles Whitman, Lee Harvey Oswald, perhaps you've heard of them.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:57 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dogg compare the homicide rate w/ handguns vs rifles

oh why am i being serious on this thread again

the point isn't that they're the same, it's that the outright banning of guns would be about as feasible as banning guns. neither will ever happen. and, more to the point, banning fast food or guns or cars doesn't really address why exactly people die from those things.

lol typo

and I think comparing guns to other causes of death in america like cheeseburgers or cars or tobacco is fallacious because guns possess certain properties that those other things just don't. guns are designed to cause damage to other things. that is their only purpose. they are designed to do so in a way that doesn't damage the user of the gun. the damage done is potentially lethal. etc. etc/

When you're talking public health and safety, the spirit of the inanimate object is pretty irrelevant. It doesn't matter what purpose on Earth guns have, or cheeseburgers have, or whatever. If the argument is about what poses the greatest harm to the greatest number of people, metaphysics don't come into play.

this remains epically retarded, fwiw
With even a little planning and skill, you can do a lot of damage with a "high power competitive rifle." Charles Whitman, Lee Harvey Oswald, perhaps you've heard of them.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:57 AM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark

how about making gun training mandatory, making people go through very thorough background checks, psychiatrical evaluation, or how about allowing guns and banning ammo except for use at gun ranges where competitive high power rifle shooting takes place? there are lots of ways to make society safer without banning guns outright.

youd think "ban handguns" would be a good compromise but apparently "rifles can kill people too" is an argument to... not ban anything??

ps guns dont have spirits

woah, quick thread. super xp:

Eco-hunting isn't just about killing animals though. I know that with elephants you have to cull an entire family, otherwise the remaining members go on a big psycho rampage, so you can't just give a bloke a rifle and say 'cull elephants plz'. Dunno about deer but I assume there are also correct and incorrect ways to manage deer populations.

― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:51 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

sorry if this sounds harsh, but this post reads to me like you feel like you have a greater understanding of 'animal population management' or w/e you wanna call it than the people who are deeply invested in it just because you remember some fact about elephants in an article you read somewhere? i'm sure they have at least some, slight, tiny idea about what they're doing when they're out there bagging deer

there's no 2nd amendment about the right of a well-fed militia and the right to eat cheeseburgers not to be infringed, though

also apparently 75% of the 10k gun homicides are due to handguns, which, if it hasn't been made before, is probably the single most compelling argument for their severe restriction or banning.

how about a homicide rate similar to the UK's or any other developed country that outlaws guns

So, are those rates entirely based upon access to weapons, or are other factors in play?

i believe i pointed this out in another thread, but deer hunting is a literal necessity in this country - they're giant rats whose population can no longer be kept in check by diminished predator populations

xp

― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 14:48 (17 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OTFM. my house is in an area where deer are EVERYWHERE. at night they hang out in herds on people's front lawns and shit everywhere. then they run out into the road and get run over. so in addition to live deer there are dead deer everywhere too.

they're a nuisance.

When you're talking public health and safety, the spirit of the inanimate object is pretty irrelevant. It doesn't matter what purpose on Earth guns have, or cheeseburgers have, or whatever. If the argument is about what poses the greatest harm to the greatest number of people, metaphysics don't come into play.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:58 AM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark

wait why doesn't it matter?

how about ban handguns and when gangbangers start killing each other with high powered assault rifles we ban those too

youd think "ban handguns" would be a good compromise but apparently "rifles can kill people too" is an argument to... not ban anything??

nabs already made the most compelling post about the inherent evil of guns-as-objects, can we not even bother

It doesn't matter what purpose on Earth guns have, or cheeseburgers have, or whatever.

It absolutely does! Cheeseburgers at least do positive things like keep people alive in some way. Guns only exist to inflict damage.

oh i know all about deer and the problems they cause

max, you lived in Princeton when they were having the debate about allowing sharpshooters to kill deer from helicopters right?!?

sorry if this sounds harsh, but this post reads to me like you feel like you have a greater understanding of 'animal population management' or w/e you wanna call it than the people who are deeply invested in it just because you remember some fact about elephants in an article you read somewhere? i'm sure they have at least some, slight, tiny idea about what they're doing when they're out there bagging deer

― sleepingbag, Monday, 10 January 2011 14:59 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You're a sock, right? Not responding to this.

haha yeah that was awesome xp