The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

There are a ton of .50BMG in the US. A single-shot bolt action runs ~$2500, the military Barrett semi-auto will run you about $9k.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:57 AM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark

I should clarify - one of 7 of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_HS_.50 allowed in the US

or so he told me, I know nothing about guns

As many people possess multiple weapons and many others possess none, this number is not a representation of the percentage of people who possess guns in each nation.

and so on

sweden makes it easy to buy silencers and the US doesnt and that demonstrates....

girls with dragon tattoos

fwiw all ex-military guys I know have been very very responsible in gun ownership. lol my cousin is married to a dude who owns one of like 7 .50 caliber sniper rifles in the states. O_o

― dayo, Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:55 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

well yeah! because, you know, someone showed them how to use them. like i am totally down with mandatory training, licensing recert, etc. imo legislation like that would do more* to bring down gun deaths in the states than any wholesale ban on them

*"do more" in the "per Calorie of congressional exertion" sense.

I'm not following you milo

But in these countries we're talking about without the Wild West gun culture of the US (or whatever), they're widely available and their use is encouraged.

why does everything need 2 have a 'point' - why cant he just bring up some interesting little factoids huh - u guys are way too aggro, my least fav kind of ilx discussion thread is where u guys are all like YEAH BRO?? YEAH BRO???? like bullying milo into thinking guns are bad is the fulcrum on which world peace rests - just chill out testosterbros

that seems logical considering that there seems to be less of a risk of getting assassinated there xp

Those Steyrs are available here, too. I think that's the model someone got busted for selling to Iran a couple of years back?

yeah gbx, I'm with you there - that's about as reasonable a compromise as can be hoped for in a country where the right to own guns is built into its foundational document

still doesn't stop me from thinking of guns as being totally fucking barbaric, get real dudes you're not traveling the oregon trail anymore

By someone I mean the manufacturer

'Silencers' are a bogeyman in the US, much like assault rifles and so on - oh, criminals use them to stay undetected, etc.. Getting one requires a great deal of ATF paperwork and a $200 tax stamp.
But they generally don't even bring firearm noise down to a level that won't damage your hearing without protection, except for some .22s. They don't in any way silence a gun.
But in these countries we're talking about without the Wild West gun culture of the US (or whatever), they're widely available and their use is encouraged.

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 11:02 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

and this is relevant how

lol otm

xpost to dayo

why does everything need 2 have a 'point' - why cant he just bring up some interesting little factoids huh - u guys are way too aggro, my least fav kind of ilx discussion thread is where u guys are all like YEAH BRO?? YEAH BRO???? like bullying milo into thinking guns are bad is the fulcrum on which world peace rests - just chill out testosterbros

― Princess TamTam, Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:02 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ur lucky i dont have a gun

I'm pretty sure it's relevant to a discussion of gun laws in Scandinavian countries and their gun cultures.

Yeeeeesh.

why does everything need 2 have a 'point' - why cant he just bring up some interesting little factoids huh - u guys are way too aggro, my least fav kind of ilx discussion thread is where u guys are all like YEAH BRO?? YEAH BRO???? like bullying milo into thinking guns are bad is the fulcrum on which world peace rests - just chill out testosterbros

― Princess TamTam, Monday, January 10, 2011 11:02 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

sorry that you're being forced to read this thread at gunpoint, what if I were to tell you that by outlawing guns you would no longer be forced to read this thread at gunpoint, would that interest you

now ur tolkein

only outlaws will force you to read this thread at gunpoint

sweden makes it easy to buy silencers and the US doesnt and that demonstrates....

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:59 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

well it demonstrates that sweden has a more sane appraisal of how/why guns are used to kill ppl, probs. outlawing silencers is precisely the sorta law that seeks to score hollow political points (heyo) with a base w/o meaningfully effecting crime or w/e. the only ppl that are ~really~ going to want a silencer are gun nuts who want cool shit, professional criminals who need it for their job (and will get one anyway), and amateur criminals who want them to be badass (and then miss anything they shoot at). making it hard to get a silencer addresses a public health problem that literally doesn't exist (ppl getting iced by guns w/silencers at a rate higher than oh i don't know lightning strikes).

anyway, ad nauseum, but i will suggest again that maybe the reason that places like norway/switz/et al seem to manage their guns better is because their populations are.....well fed? not in desperate poverty? have access to state services that actually make their lives better?

xps oh whatever

how expensive is an illegal handgun? is the market price insensitive because if you need a gun, you need a gun?

anyway, ad nauseum, but i will suggest again that maybe the reason that places like norway/switz/et al seem to manage their guns better is because their populations are.....well fed? not in desperate poverty? have access to state services that actually make their lives better?

xps oh whatever

― ullr saves (gbx), Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:08 PM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

omg someone is talking sense

yeah i dont know i feel like people are arguing about totally different things on this thread--im not actually defending current gun control laws like "oh its a good thing silencers are outlawed"? i dont give a shit about silencers. i want to take guns away from all americans because we dont know how to use them properly.

ok max

anyway, ad nauseum, but i will suggest again that maybe the reason that places like norway/switz/et al seem to manage their guns better is because their populations are.....well fed? not in desperate poverty? have access to state services that actually make their lives better?

i think this is very otm. but only half of it. US culture just seems to worship guns.

Westerns and action movies would be so boring if everyone used silencers. Better to keep those things hard to get, for the sake of our entertainment industry.

i want to take guns away from all americans because we dont know how to use them properly.

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

most of them do :/ also rifles are a legitimate tool of popular resistance and u would be neutering the inevitable uprising of the working class

i want to take guns away from all americans because we dont know how to use them properly.

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:09 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and i'm interested in talking about things that actually have a chance of happening, so we're both going to wind up disappointed

right, agreed that there is a definite cultural thing at work here. it's just that you guys are obsessed with the fringe elements of that culture (gun shows!! militias!! the oregon trail!!! the mentally ill!!!! lol at these rednecks!!!) and are totally willing to ignore, like, all these boring midwesterners that shoot grouse on the weekend and keep their shit under lock and key 24/7

no we're not

oddly enough by your definition it's the fringe elements that are the problem here

(I am not attacki8ng you gbx, just saying)

likewise the boring midwesterners don't have to give a shit about inner city shootings, cause, I mean, they don't live there

it just so happens though that those fringe elements like gun shows are how guns make their ways into areas w/ a high crime rate gbx

like I said above, as a comprormise I'm fine with responsible midwest dudes practicing responsible gun ownership! it's all the dudes who aren't, and trying to figure out why and what's going wrong w/ the current system that's enabling them, that's what I'm interested in

cause there are no inner cities in the midwest

forgot about minneapolis

iatee see the thing is that you have actually demonstrated, in this very thread, that you dont give a shit about ppl doing something you happen to dislike in a safe and responsible manner. whereas, this boring midwesterner that hunts on the weekend that doesn't give a shit about inner city shootings is something you have literally made up.

yeah i mean i feel for the guys who shoot grouse on the weekend but someones gotta lose out, id rather it be them than 9-year-olds trying to meet congresswomen

i shoot grouse in the inner city

I think the point is that gun control laws as they exist now make it easy for the responsible gun owning midwesterner to buy guns, but it also makes it easy for people with less-noble-purposes than shooting quail to buy guns, and that's the problem

need a venn diagram of the midwestern grouse shooter/inner-city gangbanger/loan psycho and how they got access to their guns

scuse me "lone"

oh i thought you really meant loan psycho! like a loan shark

it just so happens though that those fringe elements like gun shows are how guns make their ways into areas w/ a high crime rate gbx

right, sure! and i'm totally in favor of doing what is possible (and legal, we will not see any changes to the 2nd amendment in any of our lifetimes) to sew those loopholes up, tout de suite. i guess what i meant was not so much the substantive dangers that gun shows represent, but the easily clownable stereotypes they offer up for strawmanning. that is, the idea that "gun show culture" is somehow more culturally influential than it really is. i dunno maybe no one actually suggested that, i can't keep up

i grouse at shooters in the inner city

oh i thought you really meant loan psycho! like a loan shark

― positive reflection is the key (harbl), Sunday, January 9, 2011 10:22 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what the hell throw him in too! we do need to solve every problem at once after all

yeah i mean i feel for the guys who shoot grouse on the weekend but someones gotta lose out, id rather it be them than 9-year-olds trying to meet congresswomen

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:20 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

dude for real? like i "get" what yr saying, it's just....whatever. go fucking blog something

i don't see anything wrong with what he's saying.

more people are allowed to own guns -> more guns are made -> more guns exist -> more guns are available for making crime

fewer people are allowed to own guns -> fewer guns are made -> fewer guns exist -> fewer guns are available for making crime

sorry if that's simplistic but

so, you know, that trade show that's full of guns, if guns ownership laws were tighter there wouldn't be as many trade shows full of guns (which aligns with the point dayo was making iirc)