The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

like in most places. i've seen guys in western states actually walking around with a gun on their waist, but that's like 2-3 of all of the people i've ever seen in my life. i also didn't care because they were just lolzy looking western ~dads~

lol milo I have no idea how you are arguing that the gun trade is quite well regulated in this country when you yourself have attended gun shows which are a pretty giant fucking loophole

Dayo, have states that require permits to simply own guns, waiting periods and magazine/AWB caps seen their crime rates drop precipitously compared to states where it's easier?

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:27 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stop talking about crime rates! no one gives a shit about crime rates. lets talk about murder rates.

Thanks gbx.

Fact is, people curled up in the corner at the thought of guns are about as rational as right-wingers freaking out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion, tbh.

So why then do the people who freak out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion not curl up in the corner at the thought of guns?

It's a giant fucking loophole... that doesn't actually cause much harm. For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:37 AM (18 seconds ago)

so clearly the way to get around this is to manufacture and sell even more guns, so we can make the number of guns used in crime rates go down even lower til it's even more 'statistically insignificant'

I had a guy flash a gun at me because I honked at him, followed by his girlfriend punching him in the face for being a dipshit.

Other than that I don't think I've ever seen a gun (not on a cop's hip) outside of a store/range/house.

how else are you gonna fight off the hordes of immigrant criminal muslims

like, what if we just gave everybody in the US 10 guns? then there'd be over 3 billion guns in the US! and the percentage of those guns used in real crimes would be even lower! thus justifying gun ownership!

It's a giant fucking loophole... that doesn't actually cause much harm. For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.

lol (turns on broken record) - that doesn't mean don't have to care less about people dying via gun violence, it just means we also need to focus a lot more on auto safety, which is an issue where we also do way worse than most developed countries. following your logic to its logical endpoint, the only thing we should care about is whatever the #1 cause of death is, tobacco I guess.

For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.

Sorry milo but I am sick to death of comparisons like this. (a) cars have at least one function that does not involve inflicting harm on people (b) saying something is more dangerous than guns does not support the cause for guns. I hear kitchen accidents are more common than car accidents, hey let's ban kitchens.

trans fats!

How long til this thread is about swimming pools?

So why then do the people who freak out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion not curl up in the corner at the thought of guns?

stop talking about crime rates! no one gives a shit about crime rates. lets talk about murder rates.

saw plenty of shotguns/rifles on racks in montana, but, again, personally, i'm just like "oh that guy's a hunter" not "oh that guy is a potential murderer"

What's the scale of gun presence in the US? Like do you get blokes patrolling the local supermarket toting an AK-47?

My dad, as I explained upthread, carries a pistol in a knapsack he keeps under his seat while driving. He neither mentions it nor boasts -- it's just there.

Sorry milo but I am sick to death of comparisons like this. (a) cars have at least one function that does not involve inflicting harm on people

(b) saying something is more dangerous than guns does not support the cause for guns.

I hear kitchen accidents are more common than car accidents, hey let's ban kitchens.

tell that to the parents of that 9 year old girl

ffs

i think the difference is it matters "that much" to a lot (but it's not that great a percentage!!!) of people whose lives are negatively affected

I'm pretty sure her parents aren't posting here.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

i think the difference is it matters "that much" to a lot (but it's not that great a percentage!!!) of people whose lives are negatively affected

― positive reflection is the key (harbl), Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:45 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark

right, tho this just serves to explain why ppl get really involved in these debates---it isn't ~necessarily~ a prescription for sane/sound/effective policy-making, you know?

Sorry Milo, I wasn't saying you wanted to ban anything, just pointing out how ludicrous it is to compare gun deaths to anything else in order to make a point in favour of guns. Guns don't have a utility other than shooting things, and should be taken on their merits rather than how much damage they cause compared to something that's actually useful.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

― Princess TamTam, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:46 PM (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what i get from this is "americans dont deserve guns"

"People whose lives are negatively affected" is the same kind of argument conservatives make about giving victims/families more say in the criminal justice system. It's a terrible argument from them and from progressives/liberals.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

― Princess TamTam, Monday, January 10, 2011 10:46 AM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark

you talkin about sweden? norway? those are countries which also make their gun owners undergo rigorous training and teach a culture of responsibility

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

^ this is exactly why i don't care that much about banning guns, i just feel like milo's arguments are frustrating & gun violence makes me sad
xp to tam

basically I don't think that gun crime or crime in general is driven by availability imo

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 13:46 (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah, I know Switzerland is basically swimming with firearms and the incidence of violent crime there is low (xp dayo otm)

and yeah it does kinda show that americans shouldn't have guns because we are just too fucked up

lol teach a culture of responsibility ok man

tamtam: where? i buy that there are places w/way more guns, but i'm also guessing that those are places where the guns are held by, like, paramilitary orgs and that the avg dude on the street doesn't have any meaningful access

xp ah, i did not know that about scandos/swiss

damn yemenis own themselves some fuckin guns

Okay, so for the sake of argument (and deliberately leaving the US out of it for the moment) we have:

- countries with many guns and many violent crime (SA)
- countries with few guns and few violent crime (AU)
- countries with many guns and few violent crime (CH)
- countries with few guns and many violent crime (???????????)

yeah canks iirc all americans are made to undergo a mandatory one year stint in the military, just like in sweden

last one is England

tuomas is armed and dangerous

I drive a car to dissuade others with cars from running me over. But it's OK, I took a safety course.

yah lets keep the violent crime/murder distinction clear

some Scandinavian countries encourage the use of suppressors ("silencers"), whereas getting one hear is a many-month process that's very expensive

lol wait, did I say Sweden, I meant switzerland :/

Man if that list was representative its saying 90% of americans have a gun

..I know it isnt true. but yike.

Australia's in the top 20, its worth noting.

some Scandinavian countries encourage the use of suppressors ("silencers"), whereas getting one hear is a many-month process that's very expensive

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:52 PM (6 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what does this even have to do with anything

jesus - Canada is 9th?!

xposts!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

yeah canks iirc all americans are made to undergo a mandatory one year stint in the military, just like in sweden

― dayo, Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:51 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark

even tho my gut reaction is to balk, severely, at mandatory service, i can't help but think it would do the US a world of good in some ways

worked pretty well in starship troopers

lol i thought it was well-known that canada was gun fucking central

Australia's in the top 20, its worth noting.

Of violent crime?