The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

(and I do mean 'weapon' in that context xp)

its really not that hard to ban guns. you just... pass a law banning guns. grandfather in already-licensed owners if theyre going to be such whiners about it.

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:21 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Please Don't Troll.

right, so how does vigorous background checks by NICS when purchasing from a retailer help with any of that, milo

pointing out that the illegal purchasing of guns is a felony doesn't prevent the illegal purchasing of guns, fwiw

How do you expect gun dealers to stop straw purchases? They already have to file an extra form that the ATF receives if they sell multiple guns to an individual in 5 or 7 days. (Formerly only handguns, now is going to be for rifles and handguns).

are the stockpilers generally the same people who are selling guns to criminals, or is it the people who are selling to the stockpilers?

No but I know of at least 3 instances where people I knew online who were stockpilers had their houses broken into and most/all of their guns were stolen by criminals.

protip: get a fucking gunsafe and lock it!

(god so many xposts!)

How do you expect gun dealers to stop straw purchases?

we don't...that's the point...

I was responding to arguments that gun dealers are out on the street handing out guns to criminals.
They have no control over who buys from them so long as the buyer meets the legal requirements.
How do you expect gun dealers to stop straw purchases? They already have to file an extra form that the ATF receives if they sell multiple guns to an individual in 5 or 7 days. (Formerly only handguns, now is going to be for rifles and handguns).

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:23 AM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark

idk, by making it much harder for people to buy guns, by making gun training legal, by making them having to get recertified for their gun permits every couple of years...?

err not making gun training legal, by making gun training mandatory

What point is that?

Dayo, have states that require permits to simply own guns, waiting periods and magazine/AWB caps seen their crime rates drop precipitously compared to states where it's easier?

what the hell is the point of that rebuttal, milo? make gun control stricter in one state means people are just gonna hop the border and do it in another. make gun control a federal law and it becomes hard everywhere.

Lamp, you're incoherent so I'm just going to ignore you.

as long as you dont shoot me!!!

Maybe the drug war isn't such a good idea.

wish he would xp

that we shouldn't be mass-producing and selling tools made for killing people when we have no way of realistically controlling then? xp

first gis result for 'awb':

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Flag-of-Afrikaner-AWB-21.png

i am kinda pro-freedom but i've come to believe that guns are just so horrible they should not be manufactured anymore, iatee otm

what would antonin scalia say abt this thread

what the hell is the point of that rebuttal, milo? make gun control stricter in one state means people are just gonna hop the border and do it in another. make gun control a federal law and it becomes hard everywhere.

Like borders? And untraceable firearms that will, with proper care, last forever?

that we shouldn't be mass-producing and selling tools made for killing people when we have no way of realistically controlling then? xp

he doesn't know how to use a computer ;_;

I guess you and I have different ideas of what 'we do control them. quite well.' means

lol milo I have no idea how you are arguing that the gun trade is quite well regulated in this country when you yourself have attended gun shows which are a pretty giant fucking loophole

i think there is some confusion about facts and opinions

is there much price differentiation across states? i suspect that all other things being equal, guns will figure more in crimes where it's cheaper/easier to get.

What's the scale of gun presence in the US? Like do you get blokes patrolling the local supermarket toting an AK-47?

This is not a troll, I have no idea of the public presence of firearms there.

am kinda crackin up at the idea of drive-by beatings

AA -- virtually nil

I would wager that just about all gun control laws began their lives compromised within an inch of their usefulness. Ergo, I'm not sure the point debating current laws, because clearly they are ineffective if not outright disingenuous/dishonest in intent.

you won't need to worry about those in liechtenstein xp

like in most places. i've seen guys in western states actually walking around with a gun on their waist, but that's like 2-3 of all of the people i've ever seen in my life. i also didn't care because they were just lolzy looking western ~dads~

lol milo I have no idea how you are arguing that the gun trade is quite well regulated in this country when you yourself have attended gun shows which are a pretty giant fucking loophole

Dayo, have states that require permits to simply own guns, waiting periods and magazine/AWB caps seen their crime rates drop precipitously compared to states where it's easier?

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:27 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stop talking about crime rates! no one gives a shit about crime rates. lets talk about murder rates.

Thanks gbx.

Fact is, people curled up in the corner at the thought of guns are about as rational as right-wingers freaking out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion, tbh.

So why then do the people who freak out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion not curl up in the corner at the thought of guns?

It's a giant fucking loophole... that doesn't actually cause much harm. For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:37 AM (18 seconds ago)

so clearly the way to get around this is to manufacture and sell even more guns, so we can make the number of guns used in crime rates go down even lower til it's even more 'statistically insignificant'

I had a guy flash a gun at me because I honked at him, followed by his girlfriend punching him in the face for being a dipshit.

Other than that I don't think I've ever seen a gun (not on a cop's hip) outside of a store/range/house.

how else are you gonna fight off the hordes of immigrant criminal muslims

like, what if we just gave everybody in the US 10 guns? then there'd be over 3 billion guns in the US! and the percentage of those guns used in real crimes would be even lower! thus justifying gun ownership!

It's a giant fucking loophole... that doesn't actually cause much harm. For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.

lol (turns on broken record) - that doesn't mean don't have to care less about people dying via gun violence, it just means we also need to focus a lot more on auto safety, which is an issue where we also do way worse than most developed countries. following your logic to its logical endpoint, the only thing we should care about is whatever the #1 cause of death is, tobacco I guess.

For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.

Sorry milo but I am sick to death of comparisons like this. (a) cars have at least one function that does not involve inflicting harm on people (b) saying something is more dangerous than guns does not support the cause for guns. I hear kitchen accidents are more common than car accidents, hey let's ban kitchens.

trans fats!

How long til this thread is about swimming pools?

So why then do the people who freak out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion not curl up in the corner at the thought of guns?

stop talking about crime rates! no one gives a shit about crime rates. lets talk about murder rates.

saw plenty of shotguns/rifles on racks in montana, but, again, personally, i'm just like "oh that guy's a hunter" not "oh that guy is a potential murderer"

What's the scale of gun presence in the US? Like do you get blokes patrolling the local supermarket toting an AK-47?

My dad, as I explained upthread, carries a pistol in a knapsack he keeps under his seat while driving. He neither mentions it nor boasts -- it's just there.

Sorry milo but I am sick to death of comparisons like this. (a) cars have at least one function that does not involve inflicting harm on people

(b) saying something is more dangerous than guns does not support the cause for guns.

I hear kitchen accidents are more common than car accidents, hey let's ban kitchens.

tell that to the parents of that 9 year old girl

ffs

i think the difference is it matters "that much" to a lot (but it's not that great a percentage!!!) of people whose lives are negatively affected

I'm pretty sure her parents aren't posting here.

fwiw there are countries with more guns and far easier access and they don't shoot each other nearly as much as Americans do

i think the difference is it matters "that much" to a lot (but it's not that great a percentage!!!) of people whose lives are negatively affected

― positive reflection is the key (harbl), Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:45 PM (18 seconds ago) Bookmark

right, tho this just serves to explain why ppl get really involved in these debates---it isn't ~necessarily~ a prescription for sane/sound/effective policy-making, you know?

Sorry Milo, I wasn't saying you wanted to ban anything, just pointing out how ludicrous it is to compare gun deaths to anything else in order to make a point in favour of guns. Guns don't have a utility other than shooting things, and should be taken on their merits rather than how much damage they cause compared to something that's actually useful.