The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

Per NRA talking points, clearly the solution to several related problems is right under our noses: all poor inner city folks should be armed (and educated about gun safety, natch). Then watch murders and violent crime plummet! Because who would dare perpetrate a gun crime knowing the guy (or gal! or kid!) next to them may be armed and ready for self-defense?

idk if this has been posted

Some members of the Capitol press corps took a 10-hour concealed handgun safety and shooting class this week – an exercise less about getting a weapon than getting into the Capitol.

Visitors now must pass through metal detectors, virtually guaranteeing delays. But there's an express lane for people with a concealed handgun permit.

The theory, apparently, is that people licensed to pack heat have undergone a thorough background check and can be waved right through.

So in the name of journalism, reporters covering the Legislature who must get into Capitol daily – sometimes several times a day – took the weapons course Thursday.

It took place outside of Austin at the hunting superstore Cabela's, a sort of saturnalia of stuffed animals, food dehydrators and camo gear.

/fuckyalli'mfromtexas

i admit i am not following this thread but i am not sure how the fact that criminals obtain guns through non-legal means (duh!) supports a gun rights argument

xp to milo

right, so how does vigorous background checks by NICS when purchasing from a retailer help with any of that, milo

pointing out that the illegal purchasing of guns is a felony doesn't prevent the illegal purchasing of guns, fwiw

and fwiw the dude who shot up the giffords rally apparently did so using a gun purchased from a retailer. good job at making sure he was mentally fit to own a gun, really have to hand it to the NICS

― dayo, Monday, 10 January 2011 13:15 (44 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dude I am 100% with you itt but the word 'apparently' leaves a hole big enough to drop a whale through.

lol @ gun control stopping mexican drug cartels

milo didn't you just make the point earlier that you can easily buy guns in a private sale in texas

and fwiw the dude who shot up the giffords rally apparently did so using a gun purchased from a retailer. good job at making sure he was mentally fit to own a gun, really have to hand it to the NICS

Lamp, you're incoherent so I'm just going to ignore you.

its really not that hard to ban guns. you just... pass a law banning guns. grandfather in already-licensed owners if theyre going to be such whiners about it.

Good luck confiscating 200 million guns in private hands.

I agree with this. I'm all for firearm amnesties but honestly if you're already outside the law you're not going to give up your weapon so.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39345370/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

More significant, ATF recently identified more than 90 percent of the 158 semi-automatic assault rifles seized in May at a “narco training camp” run by Los Zetas, one of the most ruthless of the Mexican cartels, as coming from the United States. Only 13 of the weapons came from Central America, one senior law enforcement official said.

... On March 29, the dealer had sold the assault rifles to a Mexican national who had worked at a Las Vegas area Jack in the Box. The buyer purchased them for cash under a phony name, using a doctored driver’s license borrowed from a former co worker at the restaurant, according to Tom Chittum, the resident agent in charge of ATF’s Las Vegas office. Just 38 days later, the same high-powered assault rifles were at the Zetas training camp in Higueras, Mexico, 70 miles south of the U.S. border, he said.

i bet all those guns flooding into mexico are making the ordinary citizens there much safer!!!!

(and I do mean 'weapon' in that context xp)

its really not that hard to ban guns. you just... pass a law banning guns. grandfather in already-licensed owners if theyre going to be such whiners about it.

― max, Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:21 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Please Don't Troll.

right, so how does vigorous background checks by NICS when purchasing from a retailer help with any of that, milo

pointing out that the illegal purchasing of guns is a felony doesn't prevent the illegal purchasing of guns, fwiw

How do you expect gun dealers to stop straw purchases? They already have to file an extra form that the ATF receives if they sell multiple guns to an individual in 5 or 7 days. (Formerly only handguns, now is going to be for rifles and handguns).

are the stockpilers generally the same people who are selling guns to criminals, or is it the people who are selling to the stockpilers?

No but I know of at least 3 instances where people I knew online who were stockpilers had their houses broken into and most/all of their guns were stolen by criminals.

protip: get a fucking gunsafe and lock it!

(god so many xposts!)

How do you expect gun dealers to stop straw purchases?

we don't...that's the point...

I was responding to arguments that gun dealers are out on the street handing out guns to criminals.
They have no control over who buys from them so long as the buyer meets the legal requirements.
How do you expect gun dealers to stop straw purchases? They already have to file an extra form that the ATF receives if they sell multiple guns to an individual in 5 or 7 days. (Formerly only handguns, now is going to be for rifles and handguns).

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:23 AM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark

idk, by making it much harder for people to buy guns, by making gun training legal, by making them having to get recertified for their gun permits every couple of years...?

err not making gun training legal, by making gun training mandatory

What point is that?

Dayo, have states that require permits to simply own guns, waiting periods and magazine/AWB caps seen their crime rates drop precipitously compared to states where it's easier?

what the hell is the point of that rebuttal, milo? make gun control stricter in one state means people are just gonna hop the border and do it in another. make gun control a federal law and it becomes hard everywhere.

Lamp, you're incoherent so I'm just going to ignore you.

as long as you dont shoot me!!!

Maybe the drug war isn't such a good idea.

wish he would xp

that we shouldn't be mass-producing and selling tools made for killing people when we have no way of realistically controlling then? xp

first gis result for 'awb':

http://www.vaticanassassins.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Flag-of-Afrikaner-AWB-21.png

i am kinda pro-freedom but i've come to believe that guns are just so horrible they should not be manufactured anymore, iatee otm

what would antonin scalia say abt this thread

what the hell is the point of that rebuttal, milo? make gun control stricter in one state means people are just gonna hop the border and do it in another. make gun control a federal law and it becomes hard everywhere.

Like borders? And untraceable firearms that will, with proper care, last forever?

that we shouldn't be mass-producing and selling tools made for killing people when we have no way of realistically controlling then? xp

he doesn't know how to use a computer ;_;

I guess you and I have different ideas of what 'we do control them. quite well.' means

lol milo I have no idea how you are arguing that the gun trade is quite well regulated in this country when you yourself have attended gun shows which are a pretty giant fucking loophole

i think there is some confusion about facts and opinions

is there much price differentiation across states? i suspect that all other things being equal, guns will figure more in crimes where it's cheaper/easier to get.

What's the scale of gun presence in the US? Like do you get blokes patrolling the local supermarket toting an AK-47?

This is not a troll, I have no idea of the public presence of firearms there.

am kinda crackin up at the idea of drive-by beatings

AA -- virtually nil

I would wager that just about all gun control laws began their lives compromised within an inch of their usefulness. Ergo, I'm not sure the point debating current laws, because clearly they are ineffective if not outright disingenuous/dishonest in intent.

you won't need to worry about those in liechtenstein xp

like in most places. i've seen guys in western states actually walking around with a gun on their waist, but that's like 2-3 of all of the people i've ever seen in my life. i also didn't care because they were just lolzy looking western ~dads~

lol milo I have no idea how you are arguing that the gun trade is quite well regulated in this country when you yourself have attended gun shows which are a pretty giant fucking loophole

Dayo, have states that require permits to simply own guns, waiting periods and magazine/AWB caps seen their crime rates drop precipitously compared to states where it's easier?

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:27 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stop talking about crime rates! no one gives a shit about crime rates. lets talk about murder rates.

Thanks gbx.

Fact is, people curled up in the corner at the thought of guns are about as rational as right-wingers freaking out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion, tbh.

So why then do the people who freak out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion not curl up in the corner at the thought of guns?

It's a giant fucking loophole... that doesn't actually cause much harm. For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 10:37 AM (18 seconds ago)

so clearly the way to get around this is to manufacture and sell even more guns, so we can make the number of guns used in crime rates go down even lower til it's even more 'statistically insignificant'

I had a guy flash a gun at me because I honked at him, followed by his girlfriend punching him in the face for being a dipshit.

Other than that I don't think I've ever seen a gun (not on a cop's hip) outside of a store/range/house.

how else are you gonna fight off the hordes of immigrant criminal muslims

like, what if we just gave everybody in the US 10 guns? then there'd be over 3 billion guns in the US! and the percentage of those guns used in real crimes would be even lower! thus justifying gun ownership!

It's a giant fucking loophole... that doesn't actually cause much harm. For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.

lol (turns on broken record) - that doesn't mean don't have to care less about people dying via gun violence, it just means we also need to focus a lot more on auto safety, which is an issue where we also do way worse than most developed countries. following your logic to its logical endpoint, the only thing we should care about is whatever the #1 cause of death is, tobacco I guess.

For having 200 million firearms in the country, very very few of them are ever used in crimes and we are all far more likely to die because of a car than a gun.

Sorry milo but I am sick to death of comparisons like this. (a) cars have at least one function that does not involve inflicting harm on people (b) saying something is more dangerous than guns does not support the cause for guns. I hear kitchen accidents are more common than car accidents, hey let's ban kitchens.

trans fats!

How long til this thread is about swimming pools?

So why then do the people who freak out about immigrant criminals and the coming Muslim invasion not curl up in the corner at the thought of guns?

stop talking about crime rates! no one gives a shit about crime rates. lets talk about murder rates.