The Great ILX Gun Control Debate

The only country I've been to with a proliferation of firearms and a high crime rate is South Africa. I know loads of people get about with guns there because (a) they are criminalz (b) they are scared of criminalz. Impossible to eradicate firearms there because border control is lax (and frankly v difficult). Also, there's so many scary wild animals (hyenas, lions/leopards &c.) that people in the country areas need rifles and such. They had a firearm amnesty recently (i.e. hand in yer guns before deadline and avoid a penalty) but I don't know how successful it was in terms of violent crime.

I can't compare SA with the US because I've never been, but I'm sure violent crime and inability to control borders effectively are similar issues. Difficult for me to draw comparisons with Aus as we (a) have never traditionally been saturated with firearms and (b) have incredibly tight border control.

I grew up around guns: I just spoke to my dad, who got back from hunting this afternoon. He's had a concealed weapons permit as long as I can remember; it's just a part of our lives. I've never remotely wanted to own one though. What tipsy wrote here -

The trained vs. untrained argument is interesting, because gun owners I've talked to are very pro-training -- they don't think anyone should own a gun without knowing how to use it, and how to handle it safely (i.e. not shoot anyone you don't intend to shoot). But they're split on whether it's OK to require training

- is OTM. My dad made it very clear when I was young that it's a weapon and it can kill people. He is fully in favor of background checks, psychological profiling, the works. He's more pissed at crazy gun owners eroding his ability to own a gun than any lefty.

I'm not sure that it statistically makes anyone safer (the odds of being in a situation where there are no outs but to shoot are pretty small). OTOH I'm pretty sure that regulated CCW doesn't make anyone less safe either. I don't want to carry a gun, but don't care if some people do.

In all honesty, I think the firearm status quo, federally and within most states, is one of the few things our government has gotten right. There's a good balance of regulation and freedom. Guns aren't the cause of American crime, nor are they solution.

There was a good cover article in Harper's a couple of months ago by a guy who got his license and carried for a time, it had a few great paragraphs on the irrational aspects of some carriers - mistaken beliefs about crime rates and likelihood of being attacked, etc.

Have you ever fired a gun?

I have!

they're loud!

pow pow

makes me feel like a man.

excuse me WHAT?

what to whom

?

what
wham
whom

firing a gun made me feel pretty lame, actually -- i'm not a great shot

http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

My Parents Open Carry was written in the hope of providing a basic overview of the right to keep and bear arms as well as the growing practice of the open carry of a handgun. We fear our children are being raised with a biased view of our constitution and especially in regards to the 2nd Amendment. Before writing this, we looked for pro-gun children's books and couldn't find any. Our goal was to provide a wholesome family book that reflects the views of the majority of the American people, i.e., that self-defense is a basic natural right and that firearms provide the most efficient means for that defense. We truly hope you will enjoy this book and read and discuss it with your children over and over again.

milo z basically echoing my thoughts on this, for the most part.

omg this pic

http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/images/cover.jpg

omg that kids' book. They still accept cheques which says it all imo.

I only did target practice with a pistol but I was awesome. Wouldn't trust myself with a pistol long-term as I kept waving it at people's legs by accident.

they use the same cover for "my parents open marriage"

Hey maybe I should write a kids' book called My Parents Open Strap-on, to bring dildos out of the closet and into the mainstream.

the last gun i fired was a (us) civil war-era pistol (i have an acquaintance who is a gun collector/dealer). big cloud of smoke, no idea where the shot went

Adam OTM about even knives now being controlled here, and the police are allowed to spot-check for them and search/detain/arrest. So someone in the other thread said this was too police state? Hasn't bothered me none.

It does bug my bff who is involved in historical swordplay, because he has to take careful steps to carry his gear - licenced, special containers, cant take on planes at all, etc. But you respect these things.

In fact the other day I think I read they're now making stores ask for ID for anyone buying PLASTIC KNIVES?

But I am not sure if that one was so.

It does bug my bff who is involved in historical swordplay, because he has to take careful steps to carry his gear - licenced, special containers, cant take on planes at all, etc. But you respect these things.

― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 11:06 (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

'er indoors used to carry sw0rds to d4nce gigs and had to stop when that law came in. A friend of hers still does it but I don't know whether she's licensed or just breaking laws.

If I suddenly decided I needed to carry a gun for self-protection, or have one in my house, I think I'd be completely crippled by the responsibility of being in a position to shoot: either that I should have intervened and shot someone when I didn't, or that I'd have to - in an instant- apprise an entire situation, be judge, jury and executioner and risk killing an innocent person. It's this aspect that intrigues me and, I would imagine, can't really be trained for.

Yeah I couldn't live with that possibility either. Self defence or no, I cannot fathom the idea of KILLING someone.

my dad had/has a loaded .44 in his sock drawer. pretty sure i wasn't supposed to know that as a kid but i totally did!

Village People otm. Also, I don't think most people consider the process of loading the gun etc., and kickback means you can't just point and fire Hollywood-style unless you're like elite military. Seems a bit like carrying a flat-pack Ikea chair everywhere in case you need to sit down.

i imagine reality is a bit more sedate than that - just training a gun on someone is probably enough to defuse a lot of situations, it doesn't automatically turn you into dirty harry

Village People otm. Also, I don't think most people consider the process of loading the gun etc., and kickback means you can't just point and fire Hollywood-style unless you're like elite military. Seems a bit like carrying a flat-pack Ikea chair everywhere in case you need to sit down.

― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:19 PM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark

lol what

dude if yr ccw why would yr gun be unloaded??

also btw you can just point and fire hollywood style with a modicum of practice.

dude if yr ccw why would yr gun be unloaded??

― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 11:21 (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Good point, but then obv you're increasing the risk of it going off accidentally (yes I know about safety catches etc). All right maybe I just don't like guns.

just training a gun on someone is probably enough to defuse a lot of situations

oh sure, if there's one thing that cools a situation down it's a drawn weapon

back the fuck up bitch

Someone mentioned keeping one in their truck (upthread? the other thread? its all moviung too fast). All I could think was "oh so someone can break into yr car, take said gun, then bust into yr house and rob you?"

Having a gun anywhere near me would just lead me to worry someone ELSE could get a hold of it.

But, we simply dont have that culture here. Not in the cities anyway - rifles and whatnot on farms for animals is p common (and loudly defended)

i've fired a machine gun and it was p tite, no lie

are there any stats to back up 'self-defence' theory? or to damage it, i.e. instances of people carrying a gun in 'self-defence' who end up using it, um, inappropriately

i'm not sure what point this might illustrate, but i dunno maybe it ~captures~ the way some americans feel about handguns and their place in american society:

i know three ppl with ccw permits (hi dad!), and two of them don't even own guns, or plan to.

HM, i know studies have been done that support both sides, but my gut feeling is that many sober gun "advocates" would quietly agree that, no, carrying a gun is not likely to effect the outcome of a statistically improbable self-defense situation. i personally feel that it's impossible to stereotype guns-as-self-defense situations in a way that could generate meaningful data. seems just as likely that a person could ace a stickup man as it is that they'd shoot themselves or a bystander or escalate the situation, or wherever.

rifles and whatnot on farms for animals is p common (and loudly defended)

I get that, I mean if you've got sheep and a fox keeps eating them you want to act on the fox. Also p hard to conceal a rifle about one's person in bourke st.

Didn't stop that Hoddle st dude eh?

iirc people who own guns are a lot more likely to shoot family members than bad guys

Didn't stop that Hoddle st dude eh?

― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 11:42 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yeah but people like that will get hold of a firearm one way or another, same with Martin Bryant.

i shot my cousin and his wife
xpost

porn shoot or

popel shot

Mass shootings do not "happen all the time."

― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Monday, January 10, 2011 4:18 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

rolling disgruntled shootings thread 2010

And it's also statistically accurate that i am more likely to get hit by a car. My point is that the chances of a non gun owner being shot by a stray bullet are extremely remote.

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Monday, January 10, 2011 4:46 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

spoken like a true midwesterner. just because it's statistically insignificant doesn't mean it's not a total fucking tragedy when it does happen.

Wow really thanks for opening my eyes

fwiw i think we should outlaw cars too

otm