nice article, tipsy
― Princess TamTam, Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link
this morning on c-span some dude was like "the second amendment provides that guns should be in the hands of militias, and that's what we need, not in the hands of crazed individuals"
i was like X|
― aka the pope (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link
a militia of the crazed
― fat sheets of rage (buzza), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
tipsy: Yeah. I think the US's single biggest block is 'the right to bear arms', which predictably works some into a lather.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:22 (thirteen years ago) link
rinse, repeat
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:31 (thirteen years ago) link
― Princess TamTam, Sunday, January 9, 2011 5:14 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
yeah that was v. well done!
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm taking my concealed handgun license class in a couple of weeks, but I have no intention to carry (I don't even keep a loaded gun at home) - it just makes the paperwork easier when it comes to buying a gun (if you have a Texas CHL, the firearms dealer doesn't have to call you into NICS)
Can someone explain clearly (and without bringing up other non-weapons that may or may not kill you) what the benefits are of allowing people to have and carry handguns, because I don't understand.
And though it's largely ignored (by virtue of the political leanings of most of gun culture and rejection of guns by the left) there is an empowerment aspect. Union members at the turn of the century fought back against thugs and Pinktertons with guns. Black southerners used them to defend themselves in the days of Jim Crow. Groups like Pink Pistols encourage LGBTs to carry in order to defend themselves. And, yeah, for a lot of white conservatives who are fearful of the world around them, it's empowering (for better or worse).
Also, if you are pro-gun, would you think it was fine if every single person in the country who was technically allowed to carry a gun, was carrying one at all times?
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:48 (thirteen years ago) link
turn of the century before last you mean
― conrad, Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:50 (thirteen years ago) link
actually, turn of the last century, but I'm pretty sure everyone knows what 'turn of the century' referred to.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:51 (thirteen years ago) link
yes I'm sure too
― conrad, Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Proponents of the self defence argument, do you think that is a univeral truth - 'if I carry a gun I will be safer' - or does it only apply in a country where gun ownership is already rife? If gun ownership were suddenly to become legal in the UK, would my carrying a gun increase my safety?
― nanoflymo (ledge), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:57 (thirteen years ago) link
That is, increase my safety relative to what it is now in gun-free UK.
― nanoflymo (ledge), Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:58 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm pretty sure I'd shoot my butt off if I carried a gun.
― Jeff, Sunday, 9 January 2011 22:58 (thirteen years ago) link
if pinkertons were also suddenly back in business yes
― conrad, Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:00 (thirteen years ago) link
The only country I've been to with a proliferation of firearms and a high crime rate is South Africa. I know loads of people get about with guns there because (a) they are criminalz (b) they are scared of criminalz. Impossible to eradicate firearms there because border control is lax (and frankly v difficult). Also, there's so many scary wild animals (hyenas, lions/leopards &c.) that people in the country areas need rifles and such. They had a firearm amnesty recently (i.e. hand in yer guns before deadline and avoid a penalty) but I don't know how successful it was in terms of violent crime.
I can't compare SA with the US because I've never been, but I'm sure violent crime and inability to control borders effectively are similar issues. Difficult for me to draw comparisons with Aus as we (a) have never traditionally been saturated with firearms and (b) have incredibly tight border control.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:02 (thirteen years ago) link
I grew up around guns: I just spoke to my dad, who got back from hunting this afternoon. He's had a concealed weapons permit as long as I can remember; it's just a part of our lives. I've never remotely wanted to own one though. What tipsy wrote here -
The trained vs. untrained argument is interesting, because gun owners I've talked to are very pro-training -- they don't think anyone should own a gun without knowing how to use it, and how to handle it safely (i.e. not shoot anyone you don't intend to shoot). But they're split on whether it's OK to require training
- is OTM. My dad made it very clear when I was young that it's a weapon and it can kill people. He is fully in favor of background checks, psychological profiling, the works. He's more pissed at crazy gun owners eroding his ability to own a gun than any lefty.
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm not sure that it statistically makes anyone safer (the odds of being in a situation where there are no outs but to shoot are pretty small). OTOH I'm pretty sure that regulated CCW doesn't make anyone less safe either. I don't want to carry a gun, but don't care if some people do.
In all honesty, I think the firearm status quo, federally and within most states, is one of the few things our government has gotten right. There's a good balance of regulation and freedom. Guns aren't the cause of American crime, nor are they solution.
There was a good cover article in Harper's a couple of months ago by a guy who got his license and carried for a time, it had a few great paragraphs on the irrational aspects of some carriers - mistaken beliefs about crime rates and likelihood of being attacked, etc.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Have you ever fired a gun?
― mookieproof, Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link
I have!
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:12 (thirteen years ago) link
they're loud!
― Gus Van Sotosyn (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:13 (thirteen years ago) link
pow pow
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:13 (thirteen years ago) link
makes me feel like a man.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:16 (thirteen years ago) link
excuse me WHAT?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:18 (thirteen years ago) link
what to whom
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:38 (thirteen years ago) link
?
whatwhamwhom
― nanoflymo (ledge), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:46 (thirteen years ago) link
firing a gun made me feel pretty lame, actually -- i'm not a great shot
― mookieproof, Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:48 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
My Parents Open Carry was written in the hope of providing a basic overview of the right to keep and bear arms as well as the growing practice of the open carry of a handgun. We fear our children are being raised with a biased view of our constitution and especially in regards to the 2nd Amendment. Before writing this, we looked for pro-gun children's books and couldn't find any. Our goal was to provide a wholesome family book that reflects the views of the majority of the American people, i.e., that self-defense is a basic natural right and that firearms provide the most efficient means for that defense. We truly hope you will enjoy this book and read and discuss it with your children over and over again.
― not everything is a campfire (ian), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:50 (thirteen years ago) link
milo z basically echoing my thoughts on this, for the most part.
― ullr saves (gbx), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:52 (thirteen years ago) link
omg this pic
http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/images/cover.jpg
― iatee, Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:53 (thirteen years ago) link
omg that kids' book. They still accept cheques which says it all imo.
I only did target practice with a pistol but I was awesome. Wouldn't trust myself with a pistol long-term as I kept waving it at people's legs by accident.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:55 (thirteen years ago) link
they use the same cover for "my parents open marriage"
― bnw, Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:55 (thirteen years ago) link
Hey maybe I should write a kids' book called My Parents Open Strap-on, to bring dildos out of the closet and into the mainstream.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, 9 January 2011 23:56 (thirteen years ago) link
the last gun i fired was a (us) civil war-era pistol (i have an acquaintance who is a gun collector/dealer). big cloud of smoke, no idea where the shot went
― mookieproof, Monday, 10 January 2011 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
Adam OTM about even knives now being controlled here, and the police are allowed to spot-check for them and search/detain/arrest. So someone in the other thread said this was too police state? Hasn't bothered me none.
It does bug my bff who is involved in historical swordplay, because he has to take careful steps to carry his gear - licenced, special containers, cant take on planes at all, etc. But you respect these things.
― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:06 (thirteen years ago) link
In fact the other day I think I read they're now making stores ask for ID for anyone buying PLASTIC KNIVES?
But I am not sure if that one was so.
― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 11:06 (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
'er indoors used to carry sw0rds to d4nce gigs and had to stop when that law came in. A friend of hers still does it but I don't know whether she's licensed or just breaking laws.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link
If I suddenly decided I needed to carry a gun for self-protection, or have one in my house, I think I'd be completely crippled by the responsibility of being in a position to shoot: either that I should have intervened and shot someone when I didn't, or that I'd have to - in an instant- apprise an entire situation, be judge, jury and executioner and risk killing an innocent person. It's this aspect that intrigues me and, I would imagine, can't really be trained for.
― Not the real Village People, Monday, 10 January 2011 00:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah I couldn't live with that possibility either. Self defence or no, I cannot fathom the idea of KILLING someone.
― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:14 (thirteen years ago) link
my dad had/has a loaded .44 in his sock drawer. pretty sure i wasn't supposed to know that as a kid but i totally did!
― mookieproof, Monday, 10 January 2011 00:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Village People otm. Also, I don't think most people consider the process of loading the gun etc., and kickback means you can't just point and fire Hollywood-style unless you're like elite military. Seems a bit like carrying a flat-pack Ikea chair everywhere in case you need to sit down.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:19 (thirteen years ago) link
i imagine reality is a bit more sedate than that - just training a gun on someone is probably enough to defuse a lot of situations, it doesn't automatically turn you into dirty harry
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 00:19 (thirteen years ago) link
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:19 PM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark
lol what
― Princess TamTam, Monday, 10 January 2011 00:20 (thirteen years ago) link
dude if yr ccw why would yr gun be unloaded??
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
also btw you can just point and fire hollywood style with a modicum of practice.
― ullr saves (gbx), Monday, 10 January 2011 11:21 (55 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
Good point, but then obv you're increasing the risk of it going off accidentally (yes I know about safety catches etc). All right maybe I just don't like guns.
― goldenarsehat.jpg (Schlafsack), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:23 (thirteen years ago) link
just training a gun on someone is probably enough to defuse a lot of situations
oh sure, if there's one thing that cools a situation down it's a drawn weapon
― moholy-nagl (history mayne), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:25 (thirteen years ago) link
back the fuck up bitch
― deejeuner sur l'herb (nakhchivan), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Someone mentioned keeping one in their truck (upthread? the other thread? its all moviung too fast). All I could think was "oh so someone can break into yr car, take said gun, then bust into yr house and rob you?"
Having a gun anywhere near me would just lead me to worry someone ELSE could get a hold of it.
But, we simply dont have that culture here. Not in the cities anyway - rifles and whatnot on farms for animals is p common (and loudly defended)
― Ex Loin Tamer (Trayce), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:26 (thirteen years ago) link
i've fired a machine gun and it was p tite, no lie
are there any stats to back up 'self-defence' theory? or to damage it, i.e. instances of people carrying a gun in 'self-defence' who end up using it, um, inappropriately
― moholy-nagl (history mayne), Monday, 10 January 2011 00:31 (thirteen years ago) link