i prefer to live in a world where i can coldly and calmly double-tap commie homos like you with my CCW
― Princess TamTam, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
i think he meant ""scary authoritarian world""
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
hey look everyone cankles is back
― iatee, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
hah you gun nuts are so fuckin sensitive
― max, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:22 (thirteen years ago) link
"the boot of tyranny"
theyre just guns yall
no one is putting you in leg shackles
Bro, you said "scary authoritarian world," so sorry if you meant "Japan" or whatever.
― Kerm, Sunday, January 9, 2011 1:17 PM
Kind of the point though, isn't it? Places where there are handgun bans are hardly scary and authoritarian. What makes America different that suddenly not being able to go grocery shopping with a glock at your side is basically the same thing as living in a police state?
― Melissa W, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:23 (thirteen years ago) link
thats how i feel when people start whining about phone tapping and shit - nooo my calls to grandma might be overheard ;_;
― Princess TamTam, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:24 (thirteen years ago) link
seriously, can we take this back over here?
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:04 (20 minutes ago) Bookmark
yeah come on y'all let's take our country BACK
― schlump, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:27 (thirteen years ago) link
I wrote an article about Tennessee gun owners a few months ago, just as a way to try to get more of a handle on their view of the world. I didn't come away from it wanting a gun, but I did come away more convinced than ever (and I was already pretty convinced) that in America we mostly just have to live with widespread gun ownership. And the good news is that, statistically, a very, very, very tiny percentage of legally-owned guns are ever used violently (or accidentally -- as horrible as kids shooting themselves or each other is, it actually happens incredibly rarely, we just tend to hear about it when it does).
Obviously widespread gun availability contributes to our relatively high homicide rate, and there's some evidence it makes our suicide rate higher, too. But those also are probably things we just have to live with. I'm not saying we shouldn't regulate it right up to wherever the Supreme Court will allow, and it's not like I think widespread gun ownership is a social good. But it's there, and starting fight after fight or fantasizing about banning guns outright is just not going to get anyone anywhere.
― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link
y do ppl want guns so bad if theyr not gonna use them idk it just seems like ppl are all "its my right!" but i mean u gave up yr right to a democracy p easily
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
from the other thread:
The whole point of having guns in America, according to the framers of the constitution, is so we don't end up with a scary totalitarian government. All other sidepoints are distractions because that is the point of the 2nd amendment. And, in this modern day, its bullshit to think a handgun is going to be helpful in an insurgency against a rogue regime. Handguns are bullshit.
If the time comes where citizens need to stand up and fight some oppressive fascist state we're gonna want machine guns and surface-to-surface rockets and grenades and heavy artillery... in any field of battle a fucking pistol is a weapon of last resort. A militia with just glocks is certainly not a well-armed one.
Ban handguns now and forever. That's my last contribution to this gun-control derail.
― no pop, no style -- all simply (Viceroy), Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:09 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark
see, I really think this gets somewhere... lotta the pro-ban people on these threads aren't making any distinctions between weapon types (which is just making y'all look clueless and big-city elitist tbh), but if you wanna talk about handguns specifically I can totally get behind that. Just leave my mom the varmint rifles, the damn groundhog ate almost all the tomatoes this year before my brother-in-law got it with a .22.
Seriously, I can't imagine anybody except like an elk hunter needing more than a 22. I'm cool w/everything else getting legalized into oblivion.
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
I have no problem with hunting rifles as long as they are being used to hunt.
― Melissa W, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link
y do ppl want guns so bad if theyr not gonna use them
ever been to the range, it's really fun
― Princess TamTam, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:31 (thirteen years ago) link
people like doing fun things
tams do u own any guns
― deejeuner sur l'herb (nakhchivan), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:32 (thirteen years ago) link
guns should be designed to blow up if they're pointed at anything other than a deer like motorbikes should be designed to blow up if they make more than a certain level of noise which is already too loud to be honest
― conrad, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:33 (thirteen years ago) link
yah but guns used for farming dont need to be "carried" if gun restrictions included clauses to do w/ using guns on yr own land for eg. i get that, my only experience of guns is like my uncle borrowing a gun to kill a fox that was getting the chickens (he didnt get the fox btw) and that seems like fine, but guns as a *weapon* is a diff thing and that is whats at issue yr just clouding it.
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:33 (thirteen years ago) link
I dunno, a single handgun did a pretty damn good job of shooting a bunch of politicians and bureaucrats yesterday...
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Just in case people think being anti-handgun is in some way reserved for 'big city elites,' I direct you to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Special_%28song%29
― no pop, no style -- all simply (Viceroy), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link
p sure this is the first time anyones ever called me a "big city elite" also
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:38 (thirteen years ago) link
what plax said.
xpost
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:39 (thirteen years ago) link
jeez Viceroy I was agreeing w/you! like I am glad you were making that distinction.
not sure how that came across wrong, was more referring to iatee and kevin k there.
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link
also agree that overthrowing some hypothetical future tyranny with handguns is fantasy-land.
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah it's such bullshit that our soldiers and marines waste time with handguns.
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:42 (thirteen years ago) link
― deejeuner sur l'herb (nakhchivan), Sunday, January 9, 2011 2:32 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark
nah but my friend does and ive gone shootin w/him b4 its p kewl
tbh i do think marginalized groups like homos and mexicans should embrace gun ownership, cuz the cops aint savin ur ass from shit
― Princess TamTam, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:43 (thirteen years ago) link
xp I wasn't directing that at you sleeve, just trying to drive my point home about how I think there is more potential for a populist anti-handgun sentiment than some people may think...
Personally, my only experience with guns is with BB-guns and .22 rifles with sniper scopes my friends and I used for marksmanship competitions amongst ourselves. I'm not going to argue that shooting a gun isn't fun, or can't be a perfectly harmless sport/pastime -- cause it can be.
― no pop, no style -- all simply (Viceroy), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:44 (thirteen years ago) link
When I hear an asshole like Rand Paul bring up the hoary ol "guns don't kill people; people do" adage, I want to ask him what this guy would have used to injure or kill all these people without a gun.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:45 (thirteen years ago) link
was talking about 2nd amendment private militia nutball types, not actual military ops. (xp to Kerm)
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:46 (thirteen years ago) link
xp gallon of gasoline, bunch of match heads.
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:49 (thirteen years ago) link
that might b a little less subtle to carry in w/ u tho
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:50 (thirteen years ago) link
yup just got my protected 2nd amendment barrel of petrol
dont mind me
how do u feel abt *concealed* tanks of gasoline?
sleeve: if the actual military sees a use for handguns, that kinda pokes a hole in the argument that they're useless in an insurgency against a tyrannical government's actual military.
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:51 (thirteen years ago) link
in America we mostly just have to live with widespread gun ownership
I agree with this, tipsy.
Instead of yearning for ways to make handguns illegal, which is not going to happen in my lifetime no matter how many horrific crimes are committed, it seems much better to follow a strategy similar to that pursued by anti-abortion groups, where you shave away at gun ownership by imposing requirements that taken individually strike the public as being sensible, and which tend to winnow out the more irresponsible or casual gun owners.
Foremost among these new requirements should be increasing the training a person must have before acquiring a gun. The NRA should welcome this one, as it provides most of the gun safety training classes for the general public. They would see it as an opportunity to harvest more members and to increase their revenue stream. The trick is to keep tightening the requirements, adding more incrementally, until the burden of them dissuades the casual owner from even trying to buy a gun.
― Aimless, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:51 (thirteen years ago) link
lol kerm do u really think ur handgun is going to help u overthrow the boot of tyranny
― max, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
glwt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
this might also work
― plax (ico), Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:52 (thirteen years ago) link
Ban knapsacks.
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Ban kegs!
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:55 (thirteen years ago) link
(That's go over worse than banning guns.)
It did not work out well the last time.
― Kerm, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:56 (thirteen years ago) link
haha yeah
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 19:59 (thirteen years ago) link
I want to ask him what this guy would have used to injure or kill all these people without a gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Olympic_Park_bombing
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:04 (thirteen years ago) link
There's just something I'm not totally comfortable with about the overall idea that passing more laws and having more restrictions is worth making people safer (or whether it even does). I think as far as the handgun issue goes it's like cigarettes, the harm is so well documented at this point that I don't really care about more restrictive legislation. However, the general mindset is not one I agree with, and it's kinda scary to me how it got expressed in such a nakedly authoritarian fashion earlier in these two threads.
― sleeve, Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:06 (thirteen years ago) link
x-post Not a lot of impulsive bomb planting at supermarket meet and greets. I mean, yeah, he could have packed a U-Haul with explosives and taken down the whole building, too. But he didn't.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Banning guns is impossible. That's not even a question, tbh.
Most modern gun restrictions have been pointless. Know what the difference is between a 'hunting rifle' and a 'sniper rifle'? None whatsoever - until recently the US military was using the exact same rifle (Remington 700 action in .308) as hunters of large-ish game (big deer, elk, etc.). The Assault Weapons Ban banned cosmetic features that didn't make even a slight bit of difference in how the guns functioned.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:13 (thirteen years ago) link
Now you're just moving the goalposts, Josh.
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Sunday, 9 January 2011 20:14 (thirteen years ago) link