funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

in terms of funky sets, i can't wait to hear the mixed cd which comes with the geeneus album - just look at this setlist. amel larrieux! monique bingham!

Disc 2 - Bonus Mix CD

1. Thommy Davis - Mars Needs Women (Spen & Thommy Mix)
2. Crazi Cousinz - Bongo Jam
3. Underground Collective - Jesus Creates Sound
4. Donaeo - Devil In A Blue Dress
5. Suges - We Belong To The Night
6. Fingaprint - Night Time In July
7. Zinc - Fatima Track
8. Arvark - Well Well Well
9. Perempay + Dee Feat. Katie Pearl - In The Air
10. Geeneus - In To The Future
11. The Dream Sellers - Do It Better
12. Sucre Danny Tejada
13. Naughty - Quicktime Vip
14. Kentphonic - Sunday Showers
15. Geeneus - Yellowtail
16. Naughty - Fire Power
17. Roska - Feline
18. Ralf Gum & Monique Bingham - Kissing Strangers
19. Plash + Friends - Revolution = Solution
20. Mescal Kid - Majic
21. Crazi Cousinz + Kyla - Do You Mind
22. Hard House Banton - Sirens
23. Hard House Banton - Sirens (Geeneus Remix)
24. Ma1 Feat. Simone - Give It Up
25. Fingaprint - Signed + Sealed
26. Jovonn - Banger 27 Geeneus & Zinc - Emotions
27. G Fam S Frontline
28. Grand High Priest Mixdown
29. Amel Larrieux 4 Real
30. Geeneus & Katy B As I

the reason for the dancefloor space is because (i'm told) the funky lot dont come out until much later. by the mid and end the night got much busier, more vocal and housey.

yeah this makes sense, plus it's also still a fairly young night.

Yeah that Geeneus mix looks great, a nice cross-section of the scene, and I'm pleased he's got "We Belong To The Night" on there.

I only realised recently that the percussive sound that zooms through "Am I" intermittently is meant to sound like a horse galloping. It made me think of reynolds comparing funky's rhythms unfavourably to a horse's gait.

w/r/t this stuff I'm totally hostage to what you guys tell me. My concerns are more bound up in how this stuff gets received - every dubstep fan I know...

OK sure i just dont really see why you'd care what dubstep fans say?

same way dubstep heads used to care about what dnb heads said!

also though the overwhelming dominance of a certain musical ideology? or rather exclusion of another

about the first point, i wonder whether maybe funky has a much more significant base and infrastructure already that perhaps isn't as vulnerable to an influx of demands or expectations? i really hope so

"OK sure i just dont really see why you'd care what dubstep fans say?"

Because the (current) dubstep audience (which is basically the late nineties/early 00s d&b audience) is bigger than the funky audience, at least in terms of actually buying records/mp3s, and could very easily overwhelm the current funky auience simply by selectively endorsing the funky they like. I think it's already very easy to see how, with enough interest from that audience, funky could become just an endless succession of heavy instrumental tribal cuts, much like the Distance/Rusko/Caspa intersection only with the jamaican reference points replaced by african reference points. It's already happened to jungle and to dubstep...

Not to put words into his mouth but I think this is what r|t|c means when he mentions the ambivalence he feels w/r/t "Feeline (VIP Mix)" and other self-consciously heavy funky tracks.

Let's get real tim, the vast majority of dubstep fans have only a small or limited interest in funky, despite the interest from some of the more visible dubstep heads.

if funky is getting darker, it's because the bandwagon jumping from london grime producers and MCs, rather than the global dubstep scene.

BTW I was also basing my assessment of Kode9's approach to funky on the rather oppressive dystopian track titchy posted the youtube link for upthread, which seemed in accordance with the line he was pushing on Rupture's show. Are his sets not like that? (genuinely curious) What does he play?

"Let's get real tim, the vast majority of dubstep fans have only a small or limited interest in funky, despite the interest from some of the more visible dubstep heads."

Wouldn't this have been true of d&b fans and dubstep three years ago? I'm just saying history has a tendency of repeating itself in this area.

"if funky is getting darker, it's because the bandwagon jumping from london grime producers and MCs, rather than the global dubstep scene."

Yes I agree with this. I'm not trying to blame dubstep for funky getting darker, which for the most part I enjoy and approve of. There's a difference between the darkness of, say, Little Silver's "Seasons" and the darkness of the Kode9 track titchy posted upthread.

from what I've heard, i don't think that kode9 track is particularly dark, a little weird maybe.

Certainly that tack on the new release isnt dark.

Yeah "2 Bad" sounds pretty good actually.

BTW Reverend see if you can find Baby Face Jay's "Into Deep" mix, it has RiskSoundSystem's awesomely vibey "The Sound Is Yours", which is like the greatest track Quentin Harris never made.

lol. after that much mud throwing, tell me that wasnt the first time you've heard "2Bad" Tim?

Eh, I reckon I've been pretty careful to say that I think a lot of Kode9 as a producer at several points in this thread. But no I've heard "2Bad" a fair amount, though "Bad" much more often. I meant "sounds" as in "sounds like a pretty good stab at funky-not-funky."

FWIW I prefer "Bad". It's sexier.

ditto.

Ha ha King Unique's "Heads, Shoulders, Knees & Toes" - how desperate are we for dancehall-flavoured funky?

Very amateurish, but so action-packed and enthusiastic I was loving it by the end of the track.

(this from this week's footloose show)

this is so great: I've finished my thesis, don't start full time work until march, and have all summer (yr winter i'm guessing) to spend cozying up to new funky.

boomkat is stocking roska 12"s, and will probably make one of them a 'record of the week' (what an undiluted honour that is), tim's nightmare progresses...

It's worth checking midway down this thread for the Funky House Affair comp.

"boomkat is stocking roska 12"s, and will probably make one of them a 'record of the week' (what an undiluted honour that is), tim's nightmare progresses..."

Not nightmare really, there's a certain inevitability to the process.

r|t|c, the donaeo track you were asking about is called "At First Sight". Donaeo's also done a vocal version of Suge's "We Belong To The Night" - it's called "Party Hard" and it's tremendously silly.

Also either Spoonface's astonishing "Boogie Jam" is a very different track to "Boogie Time Riddim" or I'd completely forgotten what it sounded like. It's amazing! Rollicking dancehall business.

So much funky really reminds me of Lenky' Dreamweaver Riddim.

HEY AMERICA! Footloose 1XTRA archive working for me this week! hope it's sorted out for good

Marcus' show on Wednesday night was an "emotional" set for the ladies, which in Marcus terms basically means he intersperses every hard track with a vocal number. Includes n astonishing new Crazi Cousinz track which is a) clearly their response to the success of stuff like Hard House Banton's "Sirens" and b) amazing and much better than "Sirens" et. al. Built around a xylophone hook that keeps getting more intricate as the track progresses.

Also props to Spyro who obviously is responsible for the track I described upthread as:

"the one chord house anthem immediately afterwards, a bit Fuzzy Logickish, surely this is the peak of the set??? They big up Spyro while it's playing but I'm doubtful that it's him."

BUT the most amazing track on this is the absolute stunner at about the 9 minute mark that sounds like a cross between Roska and Danny Weed and Bump & Flex circa 2001 - yeah, I bet this is one for the ladies! Anyway this is officially my new "funky is the future" standard-bearer track for the next few days.

Marcus does his best to recreate the whole Footloose-patented funky mise en scene by mixing into an ace vocal track with this choice lyric: "You and me, I don't give a fuck about she..."

Oh yeah, here's a link. Big up Ben UFO for this one:

http://sharebee.com/97fc236c

Marcus' show on Wednesday night was an "emotional" set for the ladies, which in Marcus terms basically means he intersperses every hard track with a vocal number.

lol

haven't checked this yet, i find myself not that excited to listen to Marcus Nasty at the moment...

that Crazy Cousinz tune sounds like Inflation maybe? such a good tune, very bizarre vibes

hmm that italics thing didnt go so well, ho hum

King Unique's "Heads, Shoulders, Knees & Toes"

Hahahaha this rules. Tim have you seen the video that accompanies it?

did we get this one id'ed, just after the one hour mark in the marcus nasty set

the one chord house anthem immediately afterwards, a bit Fuzzy Logickish, surely this is the peak of the set??? They big up Spyro while it's playing but I'm doubtful that it's him.

I NEED THIS TUNE

It's definitely by Spyro but I don't know it's name.

Matt I haven't seen the video! Where can I shot?

Note the old geezer at the end.

Ha that's briliant. "Watch me confuse the dance now!"

Mario's "Black President" is furious 'n full on, not quite sure if he meant it to be inspirational.

The Mak 10 track on Marucs' last set OTOH is kinda shitty. Grim and funkless.

I think the key issue for me is whether the tunes retain that kind of joyful ravey vibe. I'm not really interested in moody funky. Like the three tunes I mention above (the Crazi Cousinz one, the Spyro one, the one that sounds like Danny Weed) are all really exciting and uptempo even when they're a little bit aggressive - on the last the sample goes "Time to get nasty!" (which may or may not be done specially for Marcus's dub) but it's a bit of a comedy moment as much as anything else. And the Crazi Cousinz tune is just so fiercely uplifting (I reckon Ronan would like it incidentally). The really hyper vocal tunes (stuff like "Falling" and "As I") get this vibe so effectively through their vocals but that's only one way to achieve it, and i like the way that very different types of tunes can reach toward the same kind of vibe. And it's such an exciting vibe! Not being into this stuff strikes me as a bit of a failure of taste tbh.

At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody" (and not good-moody like, say, Hard House Banton's "Turn It Around", a marvelous lovesick vocal track). It'll start to take its toll eventually.

XD at that "Head Shoulders Knees N Toes" track

"At the end of the day though I think there are just too many people who like stuff to be pointlessly "moody". It'll start to take its toll eventually."

im not sure that the threat is as big as you imply, i do share your thoughts to a certain extent, but to play devil's advocate...

funky seems to have a quite huge and relatively stable infrastructure of promoters and raves, and it seems to me that really the key is what happens there... djs and producers must be making much more cash off of raves than records... bookings, dubplate sales etc, and thats what i would think would most likely drive changes to the main thrust of the sound. it just doesn't seem like boomkat selling 12s and apple getting loads of forum / blog adulation for whatever reason is gonna change that. surely the real threat is not people who want it moody or deep but those who want it aggy, if 2-step's trajectory is any indication? you listen to what most promoters or producers from within the scene are saying and the fear is of kids with attitudes and too many mc's taking over, not too much self-conscious moodiness / desire for 'deep' vibes

it also raises something which i've considered from time to time... the extent to which widely visible internet platforms (blogs, popular web mags, forums etc) can be taken to reflect the spirit of any given scene or 'the times' as it were... or whether they often present a skewed reflection of the way things are happening in clubs or scenes or whatever. i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads.

That said most dance genres to tend towards the latter after they get to a certain age but I can't see that happening here for a good couple of years or so.

Some of those vocals and beats on the last Marcus Nasty set are pretty bland. There is practically no vocal science in the songs, no edge, which wouldnt matter if the songs were any good, but most of them just aren't. I wish funky had a 'heartbroken', perhaps that vocal on hard house bantons blog which i dont know the name of (2.08 on the first track on his blog. . name anyone?) which i love, because most of the vocals I'm hearing are just nothing, compared to say the classics of 2 step. I was pretty disappointed by some of the beats as well. I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness.

Well the moody tracks I'm talking about are also "aggy" tracks - only "deep" in the sense of not being cheesy (cf. "deep" funky tracks from the more relatively more conservative end of the scene e.g. Perempay's "Hypnotic").

"I think I agree with Benjamin here, and in any case I can think of pretty solid commercial reasons why promoters would prefer a scene dominated by uplifting, fun, girl-friendly records than one dominated by moody blokes nodding their heads."

I hope you guys are right. But I ran this line for a long time with garage.

I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B.

"I'm not hearing the 'ravey joyfulness' at all. I'm hearing ultrablandness."

Which set are you talking about jon? Last week's? Some of it is bland, but mainly the crappy angry tracks (e.g. Mak 10's) that i'm complaining about... Which tracks do you mean?

I love that track with the weird wracked diva yelling "I don't want! I don't want! I don't wanna be with you!!"

"most of the vocals I'm hearing are just nothing, compared to say the classics of 2 step."

I dunno, what are you comparing this too? "Flowers" and the Groove Asylum remix of "Loveshy", sure, those have yet to be matched, but Jesus isn't born every day...

Toppatop girly vocal funky anthems (in roughly descending order of greatness and just off the top of my head):

Geeneus - As I
Wookie ft. Ny - Falling
KCat - Get On The Floor (Delio D'Cruz Remix) (not the just-okay house mix masquerading under its name that Lex posted to this thread)
Quentin Harris - My Joy (Malice Refix)
Kyla - Do You Mind (Crazi Cousinz Remix)
Perempay & Dee - In The Air
Tawiah - Every Step (Arms Remix)
TNT - Your Mind, Your Body, Your Soul
Hard House Banton - Turn It Around
Norris Windross - Live Life
DVA - I'm Leaving
Princess - Frontline

Also one that has slowly become a sentimental favourite is the bumping one that goes "you know you wanna dance, get your back up off the wall... hhhavveeaadddriinnnnk... you know you wanna boogie, got yourself a brand new hoodie, and you know you're looking good, G, looking good, G, looking good, G..." What's that called again?

i make my way to a fairly broad range of places and parties and i find that very rarely are the experiences i have there reflected by the buzz around them or the most visible 'spokespersons' of those scenes if you know what i mean. i guess what im saying in that is that 'moody' scenes and people are probably massively over represented on the internet... from being out and about in London it seems to me that relatively speaking people who only like it heads down in a club are very very few and far between

Interesting point because it depends what you want to measure their representation against. if you threw the net wide enough in London, you'd catch thousands of terrible wine bars playing pop, Ritzi-style clubs aimed at hen do's, student rock nights etc. Thing is no one really blogs about these kinds of experiences, but then you need to ballance that against the over representation of rock and pop in the music press and the under representation of underground sounds in those mags. so perhaps blogs are just working to redress the commercial bias of the media.

On another note, re Tim's point above, the vocal side of funky is coming on nicely. Princess "Frontline" is a persy, as is "In the Air." And i've been all over Kyla remix since April. I much prefer Marcus Nasty sets when he's with Quincy and is playing vocal stuff too.

That's the thing about close genres and how they interact: to me funky is filling several different needs right now. it's serving both London grime fans and some of the dubstep headz' with danceability and feminine vocal pressure, two things their respective genres forgot about.

Yes, I think this sense of "filling several different needs" is U&K.

I like Quincy because he's such a party time guy, I like how he toasts even when he has nothing to say.

The problem with the Rankin'-only sets is that when Rankin' has nothing to say he just shuts up for long stretches, over tracks that really need an MC to work. And then half the time he just recites his lines as if he's passing time.

I still think his best moment over funky (that i've heard at least - I should stop acting like an omniscient expert) was his set with Shantie, especially the middle section where they traded tracks back and forth over "Gabryelle (Refix)" and "Rising Sun" and the like.

"I think the issue is that promoters driven by commercial concerns can always just switch over to R&B and house if they need to. And the audiences for the lighter end of funky will for the most part happily follow if funky starts getting too masculine. After all, there's much less difference between vocal funky and regular vocal house than there was between 2-step and vocal house or 2-step and R&B."

this is definitely a good point. and if some producers are alienated into moving further towards trad house in reaction to the onset of the grimey stuff then that perpetuates it. time will tell i guess, just got to enjoy the balance while it (if it!) lasts

shame to hear that about Mak 10's tune, i'm quite surprised, he seems very keen on the softer and vocal sides of house, but there you go

"no one really blogs about these kinds of experiences, but then you need to ballance that against the over representation of rock and pop in the music press and the under representation of underground sounds in those mags. so perhaps blogs are just working to redress the commercial bias of the media."

indeed, there was no negative judgement in what i said, i too think its good that there are outlets for different ways of looking at the world. i was just saying that the looming threat of the shadowy downcast masses may not be as significant as the internet might suggest!

i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with.

and similarly people like dark music because it's exciting or has an element of seriousness to it, but that doesn't mean they're intrinsically unhappy. i'm very happy when a big bassline drops!

"i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with."

I absolutely agree with that. Having said that there's a certain vibe to dancefloors playing dark/heavy/muscular that tend to be.... dark, heavy and muscular!

D&B nights and the more one-note dubstep nights actually strike me as quite cheerful. Lots of crowing when the tracks get rewound etc. Esp. with those kind of dubstep nights (playing Caspa style stuff) it kind of annoys me because I can't connect with it much and everyone else enjoying themselves so ostentatiously makes me feel a bit resentful.

"shame to hear that about Mak 10's tune, i'm quite surprised, he seems very keen on the softer and vocal sides of house, but there you go"

I'm hoping it's a one-off misstep.

"i dont entirely buy the dark music always = unhappy people, argument though. often very unhappy people like shimmery, throwaway pop because it helps them forget. but that doesn't mean they're happy people to begin with."

yeh absolutely, of course. i suppose with regard to my earlier statement read 'moody people' as 'people who like to listen to moody music', without intended judgement on their psychological states or the complex reasons that they're drawn to those experiences or sounds

Also one that has slowly become a sentimental favourite is the bumping one that goes "you know you wanna dance, get your back up off the wall... hhhavveeaadddriinnnnk... you know you wanna boogie, got yourself a brand new hoodie, and you know you're looking good, G, looking good, G, looking good, G..." What's that called again?

that's rudimental - 'feet have souls'. love it too

http://www.myspace.com/1rudimentalrecordings

It's one of those tracks that seems a bit underwhelming the first time through but the more you listen the more charming and lovable and slightly odd it becomes. Those lyrics!

jeez, i'd left this thread for dead and now i find it's been raging.

@ rltlc:

"god i could barely hear it above the wonderful sound of some canadian junglist wanker's twatois flashcards flying out his hands halfway across the world."

speaking as the resident canadian funky fan, i don't even know what you're on about here. do you?

anyway, marcus' sets have indeed been getting increasingly monochromatic. the b2b with mak10 had (to my ears) a near perfect balance - precarious with all the different elements checking and building on each other. but you could already hear the momentum shifting. the mc one was exciting as an experiment but if that becomes the norm it'll kill off a lot of what drew people there in the first place.

interestingly, roska said on the funky forum that he didn't like that set at all. also that that he regretted making a few tunes that were too grimey and plans to head further back into house territory. understandable given the deluge of spare, grimey tracks recently. some of the new stuff is just starting to remind me of something like "straight" by mondie. remember that one? the dullest, most stripped down grime track ever. and MCs loved it so much that they put out something like three 12"s of vocal versions.

still, i'm loving lots of it, just mostly when it's all thrown together and all the different styles are playing off of each other over the course of a set.

"just got to enjoy the balance while it (if it!) lasts"

exactly. people making this "funky will be good when..." argument are already missing it.

Princess - Frontline

^^this is a really awesome tune (btw it's princess nyah)

So, that Geeneus album then. I wasn't expecting to hear such a range of influences - at times, I can hear echoes of early 90s Strictly Rhythm and Sheffield bleep-n-bass, for instance. "As I" is my clear favourite, while the Benga remix comes as a slight let-down as he doesn't really do that much with it compared to the original. As for the mix CD: 31 tracks in 60 minutes is rushing it a bit, but I like the wide range of styles, and at least he slows down for long enough to give "In The Air" a bit of breathing space.

"I can hear echoes of early 90s Strictly Rhythm and Sheffield bleep-n-bass, for instance."

Yeah some of his earliest tracks, mainly on Dumpvalve, had strong techno influences which seem to be coming back in his funky tunes.