Has The NME Got Good?

NME and Q's readers are into indie and various kinds of (non metal) "rock". And that is really what they want to read about too.

And if you are speaking of the fans I think they are on an equal level.

Rock/pop fans are not openminded towards anything else than rock and perhaps classic pop
Hip-hip fans are not openminded towards anything else than hip-hop and perhaps R&B
Dance fans are not openminded towards anything else than dance and maybe a bit of R&B or hip-hop as long as they can dance to it
Metal fans are not openminded towards anything else than metal and maybe some of the hardest non-metal rock.

Geir, I know ilx metal fans aren't atypical metal fans, but even outside of ilx i know loads who like many forms of dance music but especially IDM. Neurosis fans especially tend to be Aphex Twin fans. Many love hip hop. Many love indie rock esp 80s & 90s stuff. On metal boards ive discussed pfunk (surprise surprise) ,krautrock,classic pop & rock of the kind you love, avant garde,prog rock, the list is endless.
Possibly if you are talking about the fans of the most mainstream acts in those genres you might be right, but then, a lot of people do like basically anything that gets in the charts, whether its indie pop, pop rap, pop dance, pop rnb,popmetal etc.

Now, ILX posters are mostly openminded towards anything except for traditionally structure melodic songs written and performed by white guys with guitars after 1990.

Well, yep, indie rock exists. But if seems so important for some of you to open indie pop fans' ears to hip-hop and metal, why wouldn't it be equally important to open hip-hop-fans and metal-fans to highly melodic classic and smooth POP?

― You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Wednesday, January 5, 2011 7:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

For the record, some of my favorite bands include Electric Wizard, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath AND The New Pornographers, Mates of State, Yo La Tengo, and The Eels... so its quite possible to be a fan of both metal and indie pop.

Also, I know a few dudes who listen to only hip-hop, r&b, and stoner rock/metal.

So, this dichotomy of pop vs. metal, I believe, is a false one.

And I love a lot of indie pop too. Plus my favourite album ever is Forever Changes. A lot of the 60s pop geir likes, I do too.

Does Geir like Forever Changes?

Algerian Goalkeeper: I agree with a lot of what you're saying but generally speaking NME is an indie magazine not a general magazine and has been since I've been reading it. (i.e. Since the early 80s.)

How many reviews of Crowded House were there in Kerrang or Source or Mixmag?

― You're Twistin' My Melody Man! (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 6 January 2011 02:20 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Same number as in NME over the past 10.

Algerian Goalkeeper: I agree with a lot of what you're saying but generally speaking NME is an indie magazine not a general magazine and has been since I've been reading it. (i.e. Since the early 80s.)

Yeah but the thing is that the NME pretends to be a generalist music magazine. Kerrang or Mixmag or Classic Rock magazine don't.

I'm not sure that it does really but as I'm not going to start arguing devil's advocate for NME, I'll leave this here.

Yeah but the thing is that the NME pretends to be a generalist music magazine

only in the sense that pitchfork does. this is what's long irked me, it's trying to have your cake and eat it - they lay claim to generalism, but as soon as anyone criticises either for not actually being very generalist at all, it's all "we're an indie publication! we have to cater to our readers!"

I don't think that the NME has ever explicitly laid claim to being either "indie" or "generalist". It's never hemmed itself in with definitions, has it?

Pitchfork is about as generalist as a generalist music magazine can get btw. Stylus and Plan B were maybe better but rip.

When I used to read it btw the Source used to cover indie. It was at the rise of lol pharrell is wearing skinny jeans and holding a skateboard tho.

well yeah that's the having cake/eating it thing isn't it?

"we are ~beyond categorisation~ but it just happens that 90% of what we cover is indie"

xp

i mean no one ever explicitly states that generalism is their raison d'être - it's more implied through, yes, not specifically categorising oneself

The NME certainly laid claim to generalism in the 90s, "we cover what we consider to be good regardless of genre" was its line. And while they did cover most things they were still heavily weighted towards indie.

The NME exists to make money, so it's whatever kind of publications the editors think will do that.

Editors/owners, I mean.

Reinvention as a softcore porn and gadgets weekly coming up in 2 weeks then

Don't be stupid. No one pays for porn any more.

haha ot but I love how geir's example of extreme stereo "separatation" is Ocean Colour Scene. never change, man

Geir discovers audiophilia is sure to be a goldmine in the future.

When I started reading NME in the very early 90s they insisted they were a pop magazine (and in one of those bands review songs things Thom Yorke claimed Radiohead were a pop band).
They definitely liked to give the impression that they were a general music magazine not just indie.

Did NME cover a lot of hip-hop in the late 80s?

Rap makes the front cover, 1988

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3336337928_67f8263f29.jpg

I think the Beasties made the cover a couple of times in the 80s, maybe Public Enemy (I remember them on cover of Melody Maker, not sure about NME). Then not much else until Wu-Tang about 5 years later.

They always had a couple of non indie record reviews and the occasional feature but it was never really a as broad a publication as it professed to be imo (I read MM and NME from around 84-90).

NME May 30 1981.

http://hiphop.sh/files/rundmc_nme86%20cover.jpg

'Hip-hop' covers, 85-90 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NME_covers. Definitely was a change in coverage around 89/90 and by 92 it was pretty much entirely indie.

* 09/03/85 Run-D.M.C.
* 15/03/86 Mantronix
* 19/07/86 Run-D.M.C.
* 13/09/86 The Yo Boys (article about hip hop by Paolo Hewitt)
* 27/09/86 Trouble Funk
* 17/01/87 Beastie Boys
* 04/04/87 Salt-n-Pepa
* 09/05/87 Def Jam
* 27/06/87 Trouble Funk
* 10/10/87 Chuck D and Eric B
* 23/01/88 Sweet Tee
* 07/05/88 Derek B
* 08/10/88 Public Enemy
* 24/06/89 Tone Loc
* 21/10/89 De La Soul
* 03/11/90 Public Enemy

Mid-80s there was plenty of non-indie, because it had a big soul boy contingent - Cosgrove, Simon Witter, Danny Kelly, Don Watson (I think) - who also wanted to get plenty of hip-hop in. There wasn't all that much hip-hop in the actual mag, but there wasn't all that much hip-hop around and accessible in the UK in those days. They went big on acid house, with writers like Jack Barron and Helen Mead, but once that phase passed, the indie supremacy - which had been coming through from the rise of the Smiths, and expanded with C86 - was all but complete.

Certainly, as an indie teenager reading NME in the mid-80s, I used to get up with issues where there were no features, or just small ones, on indie guitar bands (even if they dominated the reviews). Those issues weren't infrequent.

"get fed up" not "get up"

There was also a notable jazz/avant clique at the time (Richard Cook/Biba Kopf/Don Watson/Mr Sinker late of this parish) who mostly decamped to the Wire later, this was ditched even faster than the coverage of hip-hop/r&b.

Mind you, UK indie was largely nonexistant in the late 80s/early 90s. OK, so it existed, but it was very much underground and would only occasionally produce a chart hit. The indie charts, by the late 80s, were dominated by the likes of Kylie Minogue and Jason Donovan, who were both on the independent PWL label.

Mind you, UK indie was largely nonexistant in the late 80s/early 90s.

lol

Mind you, funk was largely nonexistant in the late 60s/early 70s

Pitchfork is about as generalist as a generalist music magazine can get btw

Pardon me while I laugh till I spit up a lung.

Mind you, UK indie was largely nonexistant in the late 80s/early 90s. OK, so it existed, but it was very much underground

I think you might be forgetting the Stone Roses, the Charlatans, Primal Scream, Ride, My Bloody Valentine...

xpost Geir, who knows where to start with that statement? First, indie really started hitting the charts properly from 1988/89, which was when the majors really started looking to sign previously indie bands, or band who sounded indie, on a widespread basis. Second, the NME wasn't a chart publication. It didn't matter if the bands it covered weren't in the charts. That what Smash Hits was for.

Yes, but they were still not as huge as the new wave bands were in the late 70s/early 80s or the Britpop bands would be in the mid 90s. Even Stone Roses or The Smiths never had anything close to a number one single. The Smiths didn't even hit top 10 with any of their singles.

Even Stone Roses or The Smiths never had anything close to a number one single

True, 'One Love' only got to number 2.

Whoops no, I'm thinking of 'Love Spreads'. 'One Love' got to number four.

Also the Smiths had two number one albums and five number two's in the UK.

Geir, you didn't say "Indie bands weren't reaching No 1 in the singles charts". You said "UK indie was largely nonexistent." And that's rubbish. The edition of Top of the Pops in November 1989 which featured the Stone Roses and the Happy Mondays was one of the defining moments for UK indie - the point at which indie bands had finally seemed to make it among all the Michael Bolton and Richrd Marx.

thanks for the link Billy Dods - 16 hip-hop covers in 6 years really isn't a lot is it (especially considering those were peak years for NWA & Public Enemy)? They had 5 Jesus and Mary Chain covers in the same period.

Just did a ctrl-f "oasis" and got 55 hits on that page.

The Smiths didn't even hit top 10 with any of their singles.

Three top ten ten singles, toots:

10 Smiths Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now Jun 1984
10 Smiths Sheila Take A Bow Apr 1987
8 Smiths This Charming Man (re-issue) Aug 1992

70s/early 80s new wave number one's:
The Boomtown Rats: Rat Trap
Ian Dury: Hit Me With Your Rhythm Stick
The Boomtown Rats: I Don't Like Mondays
The Police: Message In a Bottle
The Police: Walking On The Moon
The Specials: The Special AKA Live
The Jam: Going Underground/Dreams Of Children
The Jam: Start
The Police: Don't Stand So Close To Me
The Specials: Ghost Town
The Police: Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic
The Jam: A Town Called Malice
Madness: House Of Fun
The Jam: Beat Surrender
The Police: Every Breath You Take

Then, unless you count Housemartins, The Beautiful South and a novelty one-off from Vic Reeves and The Wonderstuff (and even the last couple from The Police are arguable), it would take twelve years until the next number one that might pass as indie, starting another rush of indie #1s in the 90s and 00s:

Oasis: Some Might Say
Blur: Country House
Oasis: Don't Look Back In Anger
Blur: Beetlebum
Oasis: D'You Know What I Mean
The Verve: The Drugs Don't Work
Oasis: All Around The World
Manic Street Preachers: If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next
Manic Street Preachers: The Masses Against The Classes
Oasis: Go Let It Out

The point being: Indie type music was not close to as commercially huge in the UK in the late 80s/early 90s as it was in the new wave era or during the Britpop era.

The list of hip-hop covers is a bit misleading, cos it suggests every other cover was indie. Look instead at how few covers were indie during 1986, the year indie became associated with jangling guitars and the highwatermark year of the definitive NME indie band, the Smiths:

* 04/01/86 The Cramps
* 11/01/86 Andy Warhol and Debbie Harry
* 18/01/86 Billy Bragg and Junior (Red Wedge issue)
* 25/01/86 Easterhouse
* 01/02/86 Punk - Ten Years On
* 08/02/86 John Lydon
* 15/02/86 Big Audio Dynamite
* 22/02/86 Keith Richards
* 01/03/86 Comics
* 08/03/86 Sigue Sigue Sputnik
* 15/03/86 Mantronix
* 22/03/86 Absolute Beginners
* 29/03/86 The Shop Assistants
* 05/04/86 Hipsway
* 12/04/86 Samantha Fox
* 19/04/86 Test Dept
* 26/04/86 Prince (blurred image)
* 03/05/86 Sade
* 10/05/86 Barry McGuigan
* 17/05/86 Boy George
* 24/05/86 Janet Jackson
* 31/05/86 The Mighty Lemon Drops
* 07/06/86 Morrissey
* 14/06/86 Why British black music has no chance - polemical piece by Paolo Hewitt
* 21/06/86 Sonic Youth
* 28/06/86 George Michael
* 05/07/86 The Jesus and Mary Chain
* 12/07/86 Matt Johnson of The The
* 19/07/86 Run-D.M.C.
* 26/07/86 Zodiac Mindwarp
* 02/08/86 Jam and Lewis
* 09/08/86 Chicago house
* 16/08/86 Mick Hucknall of Simply Red
* 23/08/86 David Sylvian
* 30/08/86 Daley Thompson
* 06/09/86 Dwight Yoakam
* 13/09/86 The Yo Boys (article about hip hop by Paolo Hewitt)
* 20/09/86 Sex (themed issue), also a free EP - Phil Oakey of The Human League
* 27/09/86 Trouble Funk
* 04/10/86 Blackie Lawless of W.A.S.P.
* 11/10/86 Big Audio Dynamite
* 18/10/86 Courtney Pine
* 25/10/86 Voting (themed issue)
* 01/11/86 Shinehead
* 08/11/86 Youth suicide (almost all-black cover, later voted the worst cover in its history by the NME itself)
* 15/11/86 Cilla Black
* 22/11/86 Swing Out Sister
* 29/11/86 Sly and Robbie
* 06/12/86 Elvis Presley (though the cover story in this issue, written by Stuart Cosgrove, was actually a criticism of the US military presence in Britain using Presley's image as symbolic, not an article about Presley himself)
* 13/12/86 Madonna
* 20/12/86 Pet Shop Boys

"One Love" is the biggest here, as re-released Smiths singles and Stone Roses' comeback singles from a time when indie was starting to become more commercially popular again doesn't really count. The Smiths didn't become really huge as a singles act until the bad had long since broken up and bands like Suede caused new generations to become interested in their influences.

X-Post: They certainly got a lot of shit from their readers after that Sam Fox cover though. :)