ILX Best Films of the 1970s

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Kay is the conscience of The Godfather movies, but she's so easily dismissed by viewers caught up in Corleone logic. I love the Mad Magazine satire where Michael takes a contract out on her.

Pete Scholtes, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, but she's a conscience more than a character. I remember the MAD spoofs of I & II very well!

Quite an idiosyncratic list there -- the only Altman being MASH? (which is a dumb football comedy for most of its last third)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link

the Beatrice Straight wronged-wife speech alone should disqualify it

i don't want to privilege the CW too much, but when you're contrarian about the most C of the CW and without any attendant explanatory content, you appear to disrespect criticism and audience.

I think Rosenbaum is usually otm (though I'm not quite in the same place as him politically or aesthetically), and I don't completely discount the criticisms of Network - an adolescent favorite that I never regarded as taking itself more seriously than it does on its face (hello? "sybil the soothsayer"?) - but those who are quick to criticize its misogyny I think are missing that 1) Faye Dunaway's gender is not the second or even the third most important element of her character (but what, they should add another man to the cast? and write out the love interest?), and 2) the movie spends a fair amount of time viewing her through the eyes of an older man with whom it does not entirely sympathize

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Good discussion, now more ballots.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 19:16 (eighteen years ago) link

I find Jonathan Rosenbaum shrill and self-important.

he's the most annoying film critic in america. i can't think of anyone else who's so utterly humorless about the movies he doesn't like.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Morbius has the fundamental problem with Kay exactly right: she's a symbolic conscience rather than a fully developed character. Once Michael takes over, her role is reduced to popping up now and again to speechify and pass judgement on Michael, and most of the time she's telling us stuff we've already figured out for ourselves. The Godfathers are works of great subtlety in a thousand different ways, but Kay is the one character who always seems out of place. And even if that apartness is intentional, and Coppola wants her there to guide us so that we share in her revulsion at Michael's acts, I don't think it was necessary. By way of contrast, I'd point to the more shaded reaction of Lorraine Bracco's character in GoodFellas to all that she sees around her: at times appalled and afraid, but also revelling in the luxury that her husband's profession provides for her, and, when she witnesses the pistol-whipping of her ex-boyfriend, even turned on. Keaton is such a hectoring presence, we never get any indication of a life lived (as you even do with Michael's mother, I'd say, when she sings the old Italian song at Connie's wedding).

Phil Dellio (j.j. hunsecker), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Well gabb, given that the only 'career woman' in view is a beeyatch, and her professional mania is so linked to her sexuality that she screams Nielsen numbers during sex, I'd say the only alternative presented is the Suffering Little Woman demanding allegiance. Madonna vs Whore about as clear as it gets.

Basically, Kay is just The Girl. All the women get more spine in II (FFC even turns 'his' sister into a Borgia by III), but Molly Haskell remarked on the movie's chavinist appeal at the time.

Critics who are offended by films that are mistaken for good / great impress me. (Another disser of The Godfather: Stanley Kauffmann.)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Stanley Kauffmann is one of the greatest film critics ever, but he basically gave II the same dismissal as the original (just marginally less so), so I'm not sure if he's the best reference if you're trying to elevate the one over the over. (And he was hardly offended by either--one of Kauffmann's greatest strengths as a critic is that he rarely, if ever, hyperbolizes.) I'd also argue that Kay is even less interesting in the second film than the first: the more spine she gets, the more moralistic, and that's the problem.

Phil Dellio (j.j. hunsecker), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 21:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Critics who recognize what is evil in great films (and vice versa) impress me more. David Thomson covers all of this very well, while still recognizing the films' mastery. I could quote almost anything he's written about the Godfathers, but this is handy:

"When The Godfather measured its grand finale of murder against the liturgy of baptism, Coppola seemed mesmerized by the trick, and its nihilism. A Bunuel, by contrast, might have made that sequence ironic and hilarious. But Coppola is not long on those qualities and he could not extricate himself from the engineering of scenes. The identiication with Michael was complete and stricken."

Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 18 August 2005 00:52 (eighteen years ago) link

I wonder if Thomson believes Coppola's statement that he made "II" because he "wanted to punish Michael." (and cuz he got paid a lot more)

The baptism/slaughter sequence is sledgehammer-obvious, but brilliantly edited. If you're looking for irony (tho not Bunuelian), that's where "Goodfellas" comes in.

Kauffmann was particularly dismissive of Brando tho ("pudding in his cheeks... moves stiffly... hailed as great acting").

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 August 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Also re Network, Holden is unmistakably the audience-identification figure. Finch is too nuts and everyone else is repellent.

Anyway, I don't think of multi-Oscared movies like these when I think of '70s cinema (Godfather II aside).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 18 August 2005 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I think you're being a little selective when quoting from Kauffmann. It's true, he didn't think much of Brando, but he did say this about the scene with Duvall you dismissed: "A few moments ring true. When [Brando] hears of the death of his son, an ache starts deep in him and works to the surface through the fissures in the old man's emotional armor." In the same review, he also brushed aside the performances of Pacino ("rattles around in a part too demanding for him") and Caan ("adequate"). Here are a few other '70s films he had little use for: Mean Streets, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, The Long Goodbye, and Jaws; I don't have Before My Eyes on hand to check, but if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think he thought much of Taxi Driver, either. The point is, Kauffmann is, and remains, a great, great critic (I tried, unsuccessfully, to contact him for an interview this summer) because he's a great writer, and because whatever his appraisal of a film, I never doubt for a second that he's laying out, as honestly as possible, his reaction to that film--i.e., he never jumps on bandwagons, like hacks, but neither does he ever slip into the role of full-time gadfly, shouting "black" because every other critic says "white." I don't revere him because I think his judgement's infallible, and quite honestly, I think he missed the boat with The Godfather.

Phil Dellio (j.j. hunsecker), Thursday, 18 August 2005 16:00 (eighteen years ago) link

My ballot's on its way.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 18 August 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Howdy partners, only THREE MORE DAYS left to vote. I've received about 25 ballots, I think. I believe the top film will be one that you think would be in the top 10, but not the winner. The reveal should be fun.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Friday, 19 August 2005 13:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd like to double the number of ballots I've received so far. I know you can do it ILX. Tell your friends, your relatives, anybody to vote. C'mon. Do it. Harder.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Friday, 19 August 2005 13:25 (eighteen years ago) link

1. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul
2. Dog Day Afternoon
3. Taxi Driver
4. The Conversation
5. Annie Hall
6. Dawn of the Dead
7. F for Fake
8. Jaws
9. Patton
10. Cabaret
11. Apocalypse Now
12. Carrie
13. The Godfather (Part I)
14. The Deer Hunter
15. Young Frankenstein
16. Chinatown
17. Aguirre the Wrath of God
18. Barry Lyndon
19. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory
20. A Clockwork Orange

älänbänänä (alanbanana), Saturday, 20 August 2005 01:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Just a reminder, the deadline for ballots is at 12:00pm, Noon, Central Standard Time on Monday. I will not be accepting any ballots after that.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Saturday, 20 August 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Just submitted mine, which is:

1. The Creeping Flesh (dir. Freddie Francis, 1973)
2. The Optimists of Nine Elms (dir. Anthony Simmons, 1974)
3. Chinatown (dir. Roman Polanski, 1974)
4. House of Mortal Sin (dir. Pete Walker, 1975)
5. Radio On (dir. Christopher Petit, 1979)
6. The Shout (dir. Jerzy Skolimowski, 1978)
7. The Wicker Man (dir. Robin Hardy, 1973)
8. Breaking Away (dir. Peter Yates, 1979)
9. Death Line (dir. Gary Sherman, 1972)
10. Get Carter (dir. Mike Hodges, 1971)
11. Picnic at Hanging Rock (dir. Peter Weir, 1975)
12. O Lucky Man! (dir. Lindsay Anderson, 1973)
13. Eskimo Nell (dir. Martin Campbell, 1974)
14. Sweeney! (dir. David Wickes, 1976)
15. Jubilee (dir. Derek Jarman, 1977)
16. 10 Rillington Place (dir. Richard Fleischer, 1970)
17. Walkabout (dir. Nicolas Roeg, 1971)
18. House of Whipcord (dir. Pete Walker, 1974)
19. The Conversation (dir. Francis Ford Coppola, 1974)
20. Eraserhead (dir. David Lynch, 1977)

You will note something of an anglocentric bias (I am at the moment working on a dissertation on British cinema of the seventies), and an attempt to broaden the sort of films getting in. It's more of a favourite than necessarily a 'best' list, but certainly strongly felt. There are some very underrated films, awaiting rediscovery, in this decade... and plenty of emphasis in the twenty above upon corruption and collapse. The 'devil's decade', indeed. Something of an Indian Summer for British horror, I would argue... which very sadly petered out mid-way through the 1970s.

Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 21 August 2005 13:27 (eighteen years ago) link

I sincerely hope "Star Wars" does not do well: it remains a sad marker for what happened to the mainstream in subsequent decades. Guinness was spot-on, frankly. I'm thinking there will be far more of worth in similarly massive hits such as "Jaws" and "American Graffiti", neither of which (bizarrely) I have seen.

"Network"... good film, certainly, but rather flawed. I mainly remember it for Peter Finch, who is marvellous; reminds me, I need to see "Sunday Bloody Sunday".

Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 21 August 2005 13:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Good job folks, keep them coming, a little over a day left for voting.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Also Tom, you by far have the most unique ballot submitted. Most of those films were only voted for by you.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:07 (eighteen years ago) link

ALso, i'm gong back and forth how many films I want to do on the official reveal. 100 would be nice, but there are a lot of ties at the bottom of the poll. I thought counting points and total number of overall votes would keep that from happening. Wouldn't have that problem with 50.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I always think that nothing should get in on the basis of only one vote.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Number 89 is the highest one with just one vote right now. I just need more ballots!

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay, since other people posted their votes here, I might as well do that too:

1. Andrei Tarkovsky: Stalker
2. Marco Ferreri: La Grande bouffe (aka The Grande Bouffe)
3. Woody Allen: Annie Hall
4. François Truffaut: L'Argent de poche (aka Pocket Money)
5. Sam Peckinpah: Cross of Iron
6. Emile de Antonio: Millhouse
7. Tage Danielsson: Picassos äventyr (aka The Adventures of Picasso)
8. Stanley Kubrick: A Clockwork Orange
9. Woody Allen: Manhattan
10. Roman Polanski: Le Locataire (aka The Tenant)
11. Robert Altman: MASH
12. Milos Forman: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
13. Stanley Kubrick: Barry Lyndon
14. Roman Polanski: Chinatown
15. Steven Spielberg: 1941
16. Jean-Pierre Melville: Le Cercle rouge (aka The Red Circle)
17. Robert Benton: Kramer vs. Kramer
18. John Huston: The Man Who Would Be King
19. Terry Jones: Life of Brian
20. Francis Ford Coppola: Apocalypse Now


The seventies is a kinda difficult decade for me: having been born in 1979, I haven't really seen enough of the classics (especially those made outside the States) to give a comprehensive vote. Also, a lot of the classics, like Godfather, simply don't move me... Like Morbius said, the Godfathers are men's films, with lots of style and violence and honour and paternal/fraternal drama, but personally I find their world so removed from my own that there's simply nothing for me to root for. Admittedly, I did vote for The Red Circle, but that film is about pure style only, and it doesn't claim to be anything more. I also had lots of trouble deciding whether or not I should include Apocalypse Now, but in the end I thought that Brando's mumblings at the end don't ruin an otherwise good film.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, I sent the vote via e-mail too, if that was unclear.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, it felt a bit useless to vote for Millhouse or La Grande bouffe or Picassos äventyr because they probably won't get any other votes, but whatever.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 21 August 2005 15:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Here's mine. Anything but the top 5 or 6 could probably sub out for things that aren't on it, depending on the day. And I somewhat arbitrarily limited myself to one movie per director.

1. The Godfather Part II
2. Aguirre the Wrath of God
3. Taxi Driver
4. Eraserhead
5. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
6. Cabaret
7. Badlands
8. Hearts & Minds
9. Ali: Fear Eats the Soul
10. Annie Hall
11. Little Big Man
12. Star Wars
13. Walkabout
14. Monty Python and the Holy Grail
15. The Last Picture Show
16. In the Realm of the Senses
17. The Spirit of the Beehive
18. Alien
19. Close Encounters of the Third Kind
20. Over the Edge

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Sunday, 21 August 2005 16:00 (eighteen years ago) link

JAYMC, I still haven't received your ballot!

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I have received tons of ballots today though. Good job, this poll is going to be great.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I will, Jeff. Maybe I will deliver it IN PERSON, haha.

jaymc (jaymc), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Some teasers:

4 films have received over 200 points
17 have received over 100 points
The most first place votes for any one film is 2
29 films have received first place votes

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Sunday, 21 August 2005 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Joint list from me/RJG

(1) Annie Hall
(2) The Warriors
(3) Chinatown
(4) Harold & Maude
(5) All The President's Men
(6) The Conversation
(7) The French Connection
(8) Five Easy Pieces
(9) Capricorn One
(10) Save The Tiger
(11) The Sting
(12) Dog Day Afternoon
(13) The Godfather Part Two
(14) Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory
(15) Barry Lyndon
(16) Sleeper
(17) High Plains Drifter
(18) Time After Time
(19) The Man Who Fell To Earth
(20) M*A*S*H

Ally C (Ally C), Monday, 22 August 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link

4 1/2 hours left to submit ballots

I've received 6 this morning, for a whopping 42 overall.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Monday, 22 August 2005 11:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Here's my list:

1. Amarcord
2. The Godfather
3. The Godfather Part II
4. Annie Hall
5. The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie
6. Cries and Whispers
7. Le Cercle Rouge
8. Play It Again Sam
9. That Obscure Object of Desire
10. Manhattan
11. Chinatown
12. The Conversation
13. Apocalypse Now
14. A Clockwork Orange
15. Taxi Driver
16. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia
17. Marathon Man
18. Being There
19. Straw Dogs
20. Monty Python and the Holy Grail

jedidiah (jedidiah), Monday, 22 August 2005 11:57 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd say it's pretty useless to vote for any foreign films, notwithstanding the tokenish-feeling votes for Fellini, Fassbinder, Herzog etc. That can't compete with all-English-lang ballots that include Capricorn One.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:36 (eighteen years ago) link

bla. its useless to vote for foreign films that never had a uk/us dvd release, that much is true

fe7 (FE7), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:44 (eighteen years ago) link

THREE HOURS REMAINING

xpost Dr Morbius, you'd be surprised, several foreign films are doing extremely well.

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link


I'd predict the top 100 will lack any films 1) from Africa or 2) directed by a woman.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:11 (eighteen years ago) link

...as does any top 100 published anywhere. It's not ILX's fault, it's the way of the world. (Which doesn't mean it's not a bad thing.)

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:15 (eighteen years ago) link

>any top 100 published anywhere<

I somehow think there's a '70s film poll somewhere on Earth that included Seven Beauties, Harlan County USA, or any by Ousmane Sembene, Elaine May, or Margarethe von Trotta in the top 100 of the decade.

Since the '70s are considered an off-decade for Kurosawa, I can't see any Asian directors, or black Americans besides Van Peebles or maybe Gordon Parks, being mentioned either.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:27 (eighteen years ago) link

We're so sorry for being too yobbish for your tastes! As much as I'd like to, not everyone has the chance to see these films... I don't own a DVD nor a TV set, so I rely on our local film archive for older films.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:31 (eighteen years ago) link

>not everyone has the chance to see these films<

Then it doesn't make sense to vote. I'm not a huge fiction reader so I'd never partcipate in a "best novels of all time" poll.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:37 (eighteen years ago) link

I think the idea of needing a working knowledge of Margarethe von Trotta to participate in a 70's poll on ILE is sort of unworkable.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Sorry, next time I'll be sure to watch every movie ever made before casting a preference.

Ally C (Ally C), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:57 (eighteen years ago) link

weve had this debate before

fe7 (FE7), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Sadly, yes.

Ally C (Ally C), Monday, 22 August 2005 14:02 (eighteen years ago) link

You mean the debate in which Dr. Morbius declines to cast a ballot but hangs around anyway to deride the pointlessness of the exercise and be condescending about everyone else's ballots? Yes, we have. I think it's cute.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 22 August 2005 14:04 (eighteen years ago) link

No, it's not pointless ... everyone gets to self-satisfactorily celebrate a bunch of FAMOUS American movies everyone has seen, and you all show you ghettoize foreign cinema the way you do foreign music.

Ally C/RJG, just one foreign-language film would be a jump in ambition. (no Towering Inferno?)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 August 2005 14:25 (eighteen years ago) link

On that note, may I ask whomever does the 60s poll to return to the 30-film ballot? I could do a "Top 20" on just flicks from Europe and Asia.

Marxism Goes Better With Coke (Charles McCain), Monday, 22 August 2005 14:29 (eighteen years ago) link


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