-- scott seward (skotro...), September 12th, 2006.
It does not. Now try harder
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:10 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:15 (seventeen years ago) link
"major leagues" though, yeah, that one is also excellent - I wonder if a whole album of Wistful Steve would work
― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:18 (seventeen years ago) link
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:20 (seventeen years ago) link
BTC is still my favourite one, but the fact that TT wasn't as overly clever kinda made it refreshing and a perfect 1-2 goodbye punch.
― alex in montreal (alex in montreal), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:21 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:30 (seventeen years ago) link
Pig Lib is awesome too.
― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― wogan lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― marbles (marbles), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:39 (seventeen years ago) link
WHATEVS, HATER
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 15:46 (seventeen years ago) link
-- wogan lenin (doglati...), September 12th, 2006.
People don't like it because (I'm guessing the conventional wisdom here or speaking for myself) the tempos are dull and plodding the drumming is awful and it just sounds flat and devoid of any kind of energy or enthusiasm that the first three records had. Pavement were good at being a fake punk band (Serpentine Pad) country band (Range Life) and noise band (Fork Lift, Chelsey's Little Wrists) but they sound better when their prog is more Fillmore Jive than TT. They also sound better when it sounds like they are having fun, and this album--great lyrics aside--does not sound like they are having fun. It sounds like work.
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:03 (seventeen years ago) link
funny stuff, keep it up ilm!
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Stew (stew s), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:24 (seventeen years ago) link
You have weird ears!
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link
― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:36 (seventeen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link
― Clumsy Colin in ACTION BIKER (coach_mcguirk), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:13 (seventeen years ago) link
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 21:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 21:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 22:46 (seventeen years ago) link
i can't believe i'm defending pavement on ilm, the home of pavementlove, but, really, ALL their albums are pretty good! i mean, if you like them, i can't imagine NOT listening to one or another. they are all very pavement-y and they all have their moments. terror twilight is hardly some aberration in their catalog. it sounds exactly like a pavement album!
― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link
You have weird ears!"
nah, that's pretty right on. i recall being excited, then hearing it, then loving it, then putting some between it. coming back to it a year later, it already sounded dull. there ARE some songs here and there, but they really didn't translate onto the album all that well. stand out would be Speak, See, Remeber/ the Hexx.and a few b-sides, but, overall it's just pretty meh, and as was said 'out with a whimper'. it's just background.
― edde (edde), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 23:46 (seventeen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 00:58 (seventeen years ago) link
"Watch out for the gypsy children in electric dresses, they're insane/I hear they live in crematoriums and smoke your remains"
???
― dar1a g (daria g), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 02:48 (seventeen years ago) link
-- Matthew Perpetua! (matthewfluxblo...), September 12th, 2006 7:46 PM. (Matthew Perpetua!) (later)
still selling those on ebay, matthew?
― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 04:30 (seventeen years ago) link
― ruddy raleigh and the rickets (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 04:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― Erroneous Botch (joseph cotten), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 05:47 (seventeen years ago) link
Scott OTM upthread. I never understood the massive contrasts in opinions about Pavement albums - they're all good and they're all Pavement-y. But maybe fans who came to them via their early stuff are looking for something else that they decided to shed after CRCR (or even Slanted). I'm not such a big fan of Slanted and Westing, but if you take each album on its own merit rather than comparing it to other works, you'll see they're all pretty good.
― wogan lenin (dog latin), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 09:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― Charlie Howard (the sphinx), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 10:50 (seventeen years ago) link
― pscott (elwisty), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 11:09 (seventeen years ago) link
― edde (edde), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 13:37 (seventeen years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 13:38 (seventeen years ago) link
I know I'm pretty much alone with my opinion. But for some reason, Pavement never GRABBED me after CRCR. I can't put my finger on it. But at the time, I remember thinking they had turned into an REM - just releasing variation after variation of their theme. I guess I liked em better scrappy, when the post punk influences were stronger than the jangle.
― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link
as far as checking out other albums, i've never read anyone saying, "oh, this one is really something!" instead, it's "they're all pretty good."
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 16:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 16:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― pscott (elwisty), Wednesday, 13 September 2006 21:53 (seventeen years ago) link
― gentoo (gentoo), Thursday, 14 September 2006 16:27 (seventeen years ago) link
― electric sound of jim [and why not] (electricsound), Thursday, 14 September 2006 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link
― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Thursday, 14 September 2006 23:22 (seventeen years ago) link
Yeah - "back to basics" is a curious characterization of TT, given how it was produced/recorded.
I've been listening to CRCR: LA's Desert Origins today. All the bonus stuff from that period is so good, the band was really on fire.
― begrudgingly bound by duty of candor (morrisp), Thursday, 21 April 2022 19:49 (two years ago) link
(It’s also true that Malk’s lead gtr playing in those days was just awesome, and that spark kind of dimmed after WZ, for whatever reason)
― begrudgingly bound by duty of candor (morrisp), Thursday, 21 April 2022 19:52 (two years ago) link
"5 guys playing in a room" maybe captures more of the idea, at least in terms of how the end result was supposed to sound, if not in fact how it was to be recorded. It does seem like they were going for a small-group ensemble sound with balanced contributions from each instrument, instead of a sound that was largely shaped around one instrument, ie the lead guitar. Not sure why Malkmus in particular wanted to do that. Later in his solo career, he embraced his inner shredder, so to speak, on guitar-dominated efforts like "Real Emotional Trash".
xp
― o. nate, Thursday, 21 April 2022 19:57 (two years ago) link
Its fun to speculate about the psychology. Maybe Malkmus was feeling like he was outgrowing the band and experiencing some guilt about that. Indie rock culture in those days kind of fetishized subsuming your ego to the larger unit (all the abstract band monikers and the showy disdain for pecuniary motives). So it was almost like he overcompensated by trying to create a simulacrum of a happy balanced egalitarian band sound on TT, even if he had to play all the parts himself. Also maybe why his lyrics on TT sound a bit petulant and self-pitying.
― o. nate, Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:04 (two years ago) link
It's hard not to wonder a little how the album would have turned out if Godrich had never gotten involved. Like, if things had worked out at the original Portland session, and the band had just rolled with it. As a non-musician, it's a little hard for me to understand why the guys had such trouble picking up the songs at first (beyond maybe just being out of practice). Are the compositions really so complex?
― begrudgingly bound by duty of candor (morrisp), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:11 (two years ago) link
Like, just listening to this version of "Pueblo Domain" playing on my speaker now – this is the guys at a Peel Session, they probably didn't do a ton of rehearsing, and it does not seem like this song is much less complex or easier to learn than something like "Folk Jam"(?)
― begrudgingly bound by duty of candor (morrisp), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:18 (two years ago) link
I’m not a musician but Folk Jam seems like it has way more changes.
― we only steal from the greatest books (PBKR), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:20 (two years ago) link
Everything I’ve read - in the press, in the reissue- seems to boil down to this: Malkmus practiced, and was a never ending quest to become a better musician, and the others kinda didn’t.
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:35 (two years ago) link
Wow! Mangled language, but you get what I mean.
He probably felt like he was carrying the whole band (and surrounding enterprise) on his back, and had had enough. It seemed like this is part of why he brought Nigel in for the album, to help carry some of the load in a way.
― Legalize Suburban Benches (Raymond Cummings), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:39 (two years ago) link
sure of course its not actually that kind of an album, but o nate's observations got me wondering if that kind of a sound was in anyone's mind. but because pavement the band unit wasnt actually capable of that (see: portland sessions), the tastefulness of the arrangements almost seem like malk was trying to frankenstein that sound together post facto (alongside whatever else was happening with godrich.) he's certainly enough of a music fan to be aware of the trope of the tasteful mature "no fireworks" kind of mid-career rock album.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:41 (two years ago) link
Maybe, but I feel like BTC already kind of was that album? TT felt very much like a self-conscious “studio product“ – with its psychedelic smears, guest musicians, etc.
― begrudgingly bound by duty of candor (morrisp), Thursday, 21 April 2022 20:56 (two years ago) link
It’s their Siamese Dream, lolThey should’ve work with Butch Vig; maybe Thurston & Kim could’ve helped negotiate a discount…
― begrudgingly bound by duty of candor (morrisp), Thursday, 21 April 2022 21:01 (two years ago) link
Who’s fault is it? I think it’s sm’s…looking back to Brighten, the slog had started, eg “type slowly”
It's all about the drummer--Steve is a naturally slower drummer, even Malkmus admits that on the new Matador podcast. Gary wouldn't have known what to do with the newer/slower songs on BTC/TT but I mean, imagine Janet W. on some of the numbers. . .
― a (waterface), Friday, 22 April 2022 12:13 (two years ago) link
also it's OTM about Malkmus being the only person actively trying to get better at an instrument. Spiral even complains about all of the hard chords in the newer songs, think it was in the Pitchfork thing.
― a (waterface), Friday, 22 April 2022 12:16 (two years ago) link
new LA Times interview w/ SM says they're bringing a keyboard player on tour! curious who it'll be.
― alpine static, Friday, 22 April 2022 16:42 (two years ago) link
Rebecca Cole (from Wild Flag and the Minders)
― tylerw, Friday, 22 April 2022 16:53 (two years ago) link
ah ... makes sense.
― alpine static, Friday, 22 April 2022 20:01 (two years ago) link
but because pavement the band unit wasnt actually capable of that (see: portland sessions), the tastefulness of the arrangements almost seem like malk was trying to frankenstein that sound together post facto
Otm
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 23 April 2022 15:32 (two years ago) link
SM wearing same shirt as seen on back cover of Starlite Walker?: https://www.instagram.com/p/CcvpxHEPyxS/
― Hops: Mosaic, Citra, Simcoe (morrisp), Sunday, 24 April 2022 22:35 (two years ago) link
"Folk Jam" is much more enjoyable on this tour, partly because Malkmus's become a much better improviser so it's now a showcase for some mellow jamming.
― birdistheword, Friday, 7 October 2022 17:25 (one year ago) link
Right when they go into the "Marquee Moon" segue, it can get really nice. (Not sure if every show has been like that though.)
― birdistheword, Friday, 7 October 2022 17:28 (one year ago) link
listening to malkmus's demos from the deluxe reissue and i'm really surprised how synth-heavy they are. makes me wish the final album had malkmus's synth noodling all over it too, some of these are really great
― ufo, Tuesday, 21 February 2023 09:41 (one year ago) link
i have to say i'm devastated to learn that it's "lip balm on watery clay" and not "ripple on watery clay" which i really loved as a predecessor to "relationships hey hey hey".
― Heez, Monday, 21 August 2023 02:11 (eight months ago) link
I think I thought it was “pitcher of watery clay”
― brimstead, Monday, 21 August 2023 02:21 (eight months ago) link
I’ve come to realize that I didn’t correctly parse many of the lyrics on that album.
― Cone of uncertainty (morrisp), Monday, 21 August 2023 02:30 (eight months ago) link
Malkmus giveth & malkmus taketh away.
― BrianB, Monday, 21 August 2023 03:00 (eight months ago) link
i can hear both, but have always heard lip balm but i get it i get it
it's like malkmus anticipated those tiktok videos wherein you "hear" the person saying whatever words you're looking at
― a (waterface), Monday, 21 August 2023 14:47 (eight months ago) link
either way she kisses like a rock, okay
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 21 August 2023 14:48 (eight months ago) link
it was seriously a couplet i found solace in when going through issues with my partner. it would repeat in my head
Ripple on watery clayrelationships hey hey hey
there's something so comforting in that
and yeah, "you kiss like a rock but you know i need it anyway" is a beaut
― Heez, Monday, 21 August 2023 19:16 (eight months ago) link