AL GREEN: CLASSIC OR DUD?

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are the new reissues that much of an improvement soundwise (a la the Stones reissues which are) I should rebuy them?

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 13:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

...possibly the stupidest question ever posed in the history of mankind

Dadaismus, Monday, 7 April 2003 13:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

JB: The reissues are okay, soundwise, but I wouldn't say the transfer is Oh My God Amazing You Can Hear The Spittle! or anything. But they've all got bonus tracks, and maybe if more of us buy these Hi/Right Stuff will reissue everything. Right now it's just the first four...I don't know when/if they're getting to the rest of it.

But them bonus tracks is special. Green Is Blues includes not only "I Want to Hold Your Hand" but also two originals and a cover of Chuck Berry's "Memphis, Tennessee"; Gets Next to You has a nice long version of "Ride Sally Ride" and a couple more.

Neudonym, Monday, 7 April 2003 14:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Listen," a collection of rarities (earlier released on LP as "Love Ritual") is great. The remixed "bwana" version of "Love Ritual" is crazed Memphis/Afrobeat at its best. Willie Mitchell did a lot of great stuff--the Hi Records box contains much to enjoy. Bowlegs Miller doing "What Do You Mean" is probably my favorite non-Green Hi record, a truly insane song that my girlfriend notes I put on every single mix tape I made for a while, like Green I am an evangelist.

Mitchell's Royal Recording studio is still there in S. Memphis. Last time I visited the Big "S" Grill made a very good barbecue sandwich, good jukebox, and there's always Josie's Tamales near there if you need tamales, not to mention Blue Suede Shoe Shine...

Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

I saw Al Green a couple of years ago in a big soft seat theatre and when he started "L-O-V-E", I somehow managed to leap to my feet in overexcitement and then instinctively tried to sit right back down in embarassment but my seat had automatically folded back up under me so I fell on my ass and as I got to my feet redfaced and I looked around me redfaced, everyone was just smiling happily at me like "I KNOW! I KNOW!" It was one of the nicest moments I've ever had seeing live music.


also, as others have mentioned here, there's a wealth of great stuff by other Hi artists like Ann Peebles, O.V. Wright, Otis Clay & Syl Johnson if you want more of that sound - what a band! Al Jackson and the Grimes bros, Willie Mitchell production... oh, oh, and Jess Hill is otm about the "Love Ritual" collection - "Up Above My Head is my favourite Al track maybe... sorry, it's just so fucking good... I'm about to fall off my chair again.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Otis Clay's "If I Could Reach Out (And Help Somebody)" is my favorite record in that late 60s/early 70s help-your-neighbor soul subgenre. Actually that's selling it short because that subgenre contained a lot of dross. It's a beautiful song and has the power to redeem the cliche referenced in the title. Another great Hi singer was George Jackson who sang one sang whose melody sounds suspiciously like the Clay tune just mentioned: "Aretha, Sing One for Me."

Like Stax/Volt etc., Hi's output was so prolific that a lot of horn and string charts, melodies, lyrical ideas, etc. got recycled. I have absolutely no problem with that whatever. It's actually a good way to determine what a given singer brings to the table.

I actually really like the later Hi stuff, from the late '70s, which both is slightly hampered by and benefits from a certain slackness, or quietude. Examples would be Ann Peebles's If This Is Heaven, Syl Johnson's Total Explosion, Al Green's Have a Good Time, etc.

O.V. Wright is sort of a force of nature; his Hi stuff sounds more like his pre-Hi stuff than you'd expect. He doesn't go "uptown" as much as other Hi artists of the period. "That's the Way I Feel About 'Cha" is a great balance though.

Crosspost w/Fritz!

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

otis clay's "turning over the ground" deserves special mention too... and I meant "hodges bros." not "grimes bros.", I think. I need a valium thinking about this stuff.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

also the cover art of the fantastic "Al Green Is Love" is hilarious, because the front cover is all nice and you look at it and think, "oh, Al Green Is Love" and then flip over to the back cover, where he's all sweaty and screwed up looking and you think , "Ugh, Al Green Is Stoned!"

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha!

James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

but anyway if anyone wants to argue about Al Green, the question is surely "Is any of the post-secular/post-Hi stuff any good?"

I don't really know, not having ventured into it... though the oft-maligned "The Belle Album" - the transitional one - is quite good.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

also, anyone ever been here?
http://www.algreen.com/propic6.jpg

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

YES I HAVE BEEN! The fulfillment of all my Brit white-boy fantasies!

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

RFI, S&D: Al Green's gospel recordings (though hardly anyone responded)

Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 7 April 2003 14:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Absolute classic. By the way, for those, like me, who are collecting the albums as they reissue them with bonus tracks, I emailed the label and they said that Call Me should be reissued by the end of the year, so I'm assuming that there's going to be another set of reissues coming soon.

Jonathan, Monday, 7 April 2003 15:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Belle Album" as far as I can tell has never been maligned. I have the orig. old Hi LP of it--I feel safe in asserting that it's Green's greatest album. "Call Me" is great too.

I was re-reading some Xgau reviews the other day and came across something he said about Green and the rhythm-section thing happening on those classic Hi records. Xgau says something about the "thick 3rd-beat" emphasis of the drumming and as far as I can tell that's a classic howler--Xgau can't count. He's hearing the second beat as the third beat for some reason--he's counting the eighth notes as quarter notes.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 7 April 2003 15:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, I was gonna say, is Belle Album really "oft-maligned?" In any case, it's great. Really great, often overlooked Al Green tracks: "That's the Way It Is," "Let It Shine," "Home Again," "Country Boy," "Feels Like Summer," "To Sir With Love."

Burr (Burr), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

as far as I can tell that's not a howler at all--since the songs are in 4/4 time why wouldn't he count them that way? I always have.

search Hi Rhythm's On the Loose, reissued a couple years ago w/some photo instead of whatever the original cover art was. they're not kidding--it's really loose, like about-to-fall-apart loose, and extremely charming for it

M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's a howler because he's counting the second beat as the third. If you count the eighth notes as quarter notes then "one-and-two" gets misheard as "one-two-three." So Xgau thinks the drummer is accenting on the third beat when it's really the second. That's a howler.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

In fairness to Xgau, I think the term "howler" should be reserved for really egregious and obvious errors. As far as I'm concerned this is just a simple mistake; one that I would never have picked up on.

I love Al Green btw.

Sean (Sean), Monday, 7 April 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wow, this turned from a no-brainer to an all-hearter, or something...

Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 06:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

anyone asks me what the definition of sensual soul is i say Al Green is, love.

gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 09:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's all a bit schmaltzy though, isn't it?
Not to mention the fact that they all just blend together.
Exceptions: "Here I Am Baby," and "Now That I've Found You."

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 10:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah--but not being able to comprehend the basic rhythm of an artist for whom you later write liner notes seems pretty fucking egregious to me.

Ace Al Green track, the one I love above all: "Love is Real." The way he says "Say something..."

Jess Hill (jesshill), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

only Jess Hill knows anything about music shockah

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

He noticed a beatical oddity, that'll do won't it? This isn't an exam! Huge classic. Finding the two Lp 'Greatest Hits' for $2 may be my greatest ever record bargain, a lot of it is just too simply (in emotional terms) perfect to say much about. I like it, I think you should hear it if you haven't.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

what? you have to ask if al greens classic? dumb thread

bobo t, Tuesday, 8 April 2003 13:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

only Jess Hill knows anything about music shockah

-- M Matos

Man, all I said was that I can count. Maybe that's a shockah where you come from.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Arithmetic is sorta taboo in Minneapolis (motherfucker's loves thems some algebra though)

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 15:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

It used to make me cry whenever he came on Ally McBeal.

I will leave that sentance as it stands for Dan's pleasure, but you know what I mean.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 19:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Everyone loves and reveres Al Green, which pleases me. I go along with Clay, Wright, Peebles and maybe George Jackson and Syl Johnson as other Hi greats too. Don Bryant should get a mention too, and their girl group Quiet Elegance were terrific. I also like Norm West, Willie Walker, Philip Mitchell and others. And the musicians! Obviously Al Jackson is a god among musicians, but Howard Grimes only lacked the beauty of AJ's touch on the drums, Charles Hodges is my favourite organist ever, Leroy is a magnificent guitarist (listen to the start of Al's Love And Happiness), and Teenie a wonderful bassist - the three Hodges brothers. It's maybe the greatest house band the world has ever known. I think of Willie Mitchell as my favourite producer, but with these musicians and singers, how could he go wrong?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 11 April 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have the -- or is it a? -- greatest hits comp and it's indeed v. pleasant. Which may be damning with faint praise for everyone else here, I dunno...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 11 April 2003 19:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

(grumbles)

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 11 April 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh, someone said they want an album of Al Green's covers: it's called Cover Me Green, unfortunately. Don't know how available it is.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've seen the Hi rhythm section several times, once behind Ann Peebles, once backing (disastrously) Alex Chilton...they're great. Grimes is really as good as Al Jackson, he's basically his successor. Teenie Hodges is a beautiful guitarist--Willie Mitchell has been quoted as saying that Al Green was in many ways really an extension of Teenie. "Teenie's Dream" which is on the Hi box set that came out in '95 is probably my favorite instrumental ever.

The thing that is interesting is the obvious connection between what Mitchell did and what Gamble and Huff did in Philly...and both scene's obvious role in the beginnings of disco music.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Grimes was groomed to be Jackson's rhythmic duplicate, according to that book Sweet Soul Music. He is too, but he doesn't quite have the delicate and subtle touch Jackson did. It's true that in any other context, he sounds a fucking great drummer - he'd still be in my all-time top ten.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Did anybody hear that, uh "comeback" cd that Syl Johnson released about a decade ago on Delmark, Back in the Game? A friend of mine produced it; he got Hi Rhythm to do the backing. I thought it was really enjoyable, but you definitely miss that Mitchell drum sound.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 11 April 2003 20:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Was grimes on drums? Because I don't find anything lacking in Al Green's later Hi LPs, all of which feature Grimes.

Jackson's drum sound on Stax records sounds quite a bit different than his sound on Hi records (at least in their respective golden ages). Hmm.

Amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 11 April 2003 21:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, it's Grimes with the three Hodges brothers (and Fred Hodges on organ on two tracks - I didn't know there was a Fred Hodges!)

By "Mitchell drum sound" I meant the signature production style, not Grimes' playing, which is not in question.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Friday, 11 April 2003 21:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

three weeks pass...
I am scandalized by the fact that I own nothing by Al Green. It's taken me forever to realize which songs I like are ones that he did, and then I have somehow forgotten about him over off and on. I promise that within a few months I will at least buy the greatest hits collection.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 8 May 2003 01:37 (twenty years ago) link

well, stick with the albums and don't buy the white boxed Al Green Anthology set, it's lazy, an embarrassment. I was indirectly responsible for the live stuff from the SOUL! TV show getting on that collection--some of the most amazing live performances ever by Green, and if you have seen his '73 Midnight Special show (Al as coked out sexed up rock star; in the middle of nowhere does a bit of J.J. Cale's 'After Midnight' (!)) or his Soul Train appearances, you know that's no small boast--and only two of the SOUL! performances were picked, one of them being the absolute dud "Judy." The rest of the live stuff mostly from the Mugge film is really lackluster (as is the film excepting the little bits of Green playing solo acoustic) and things like "That's The Way It Is" are also missing. I won't even comment on the usual ineptitude from Christgau.

Al Green obviously still has it when he cares to put out, it's a sin no one can extract a decent album from him.

Two killer Hi cuts: 'I Don't Know Why" OV Wright
"I Still Love You," Ann Peebles

Al Jackson, RIP

rumplestiltskin, Thursday, 8 May 2003 04:48 (twenty years ago) link

five months pass...
I just got Call Me and I'm going bananas. For me the appeal of the 70s stuff I've heard is like 45% production, 35% Green's voice, 20% songs. The sound of those records, the drums, organ squelches, etc, fascinates me. I think of all the chillout/downtempo producers today & how in love they are with "atmosphere" & they never come close to that sound.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 02:31 (twenty years ago) link

ooo listen to those snares...

amateurist (amateurist), Wednesday, 8 October 2003 16:15 (twenty years ago) link

five months pass...
BELLE BELLE BEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
all christ lo fi soul rules

SexyDancer, Thursday, 25 March 2004 03:40 (twenty years ago) link

This was perhaps the stupidest question ever asked ILE.

oops (Oops), Thursday, 25 March 2004 06:29 (twenty years ago) link

The albums "Living for You" by Al Green and "I Can't Stand the Rain" by Anne Peebles are two of the only albums I've ever come across without a bad second on them. They are so perfect that they are better than the "Best ofs" because with the latter you pine for the ones that aren't on there.

This is exquisite shagging music, too, I must say. It doesn't matter which girl you bring home, from whatever walk of life and music, she'll always accept Al or Anne, in my limited experience.

Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Thursday, 25 March 2004 13:05 (twenty years ago) link

five months pass...
...

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 01:03 (nineteen years ago) link

He is wihout equal, really.

adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 01:11 (nineteen years ago) link

without.

Even the b-sides/rarities are gems. I love the "Flipside To Al Green" collection so much.

adam. (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 01:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Is this thread title a joke? It's like, "Breathing: C/D?" WTF?

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 21 September 2004 01:17 (nineteen years ago) link

a lot of his albums are severely underrated. i scored Al Green Is Love for 5 bucks recently at a pretty expensive record store.

Heez, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:27 (one year ago) link

beat guitar sound, best drum sound

brimstead, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:45 (one year ago) link

best

brimstead, Thursday, 21 July 2022 18:45 (one year ago) link

Love Ritual: Rare and Previously Unreleased 1968-1976 is a great one too. He left plenty of choice rarities in the can.

I just wish there was a definitive concert film, but you can at least piece together a great video compilation of his TV performances. (The live Tokyo album ain't bad, but it's not the great live album he has in him.)

birdistheword, Thursday, 21 July 2022 19:25 (one year ago) link

seven months pass...

Midnight Special YT channel just uploaded some clips from '73 & '74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVMijYHnbGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evv1xwK5UYA

ty these are greaat

four square ups... no punches thrown (Spottie), Thursday, 16 March 2023 23:51 (one year ago) link

oh dear

budo jeru, Friday, 17 March 2023 03:49 (one year ago) link

great revive

budo jeru, Friday, 17 March 2023 03:59 (one year ago) link

"Jesus is Waiting" is almost enough to make me want to accept the Lord.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 17 March 2023 04:02 (one year ago) link

He was so great in the '70s, it's a shame there hasn't been a definitive live release put together, either an album or a DVD/Blu-ray. (The Tokyo album didn't quite do him justice.) It's all out there is pieces though, like in those clips.

birdistheword, Friday, 17 March 2023 04:13 (one year ago) link

I don't think I have seen the 1984 Robert Mugge directed live "Gospel According to Al Green" film doc

curmudgeon, Friday, 17 March 2023 15:40 (one year ago) link

Awesome revive

✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 17 March 2023 16:56 (one year ago) link

Can't help but notice the front row of the audience is all women.

Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, 17 March 2023 21:44 (one year ago) link

it's a shame there hasn't been a definitive live release put together

in my opinion, the videos make the experience; his moves are everything. when it comes to audio, i'm extremely fine listening to the studio recordings, which are some of the best sounding records ever.

budo jeru, Friday, 17 March 2023 21:54 (one year ago) link

Can't help but notice the front row of the audience is all women.

― Maggot Bairn (Tom D.), Friday, March 17, 2023 9:44 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

uh yeah did you see the man singing on stage? god at his peak he was just unbelievably hot.

xp to jimbeaux you made my heart skip a beat thinking that one of these midnight specials was a "jesus is waiting" performance but alas

ꙮ (map), Friday, 17 March 2023 22:07 (one year ago) link

sorry to be crass but al green setting the tempo by clapping before the band kicks in on "love and happiness" is on some "fuck me right goddamn now" shit

ꙮ (map), Friday, 17 March 2023 22:09 (one year ago) link

all about the foreplay

corrs unplugged, Saturday, 18 March 2023 17:16 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

new single, cover of "Perfect Day"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5NT_079_X0

Brad C., Tuesday, 22 August 2023 16:05 (seven months ago) link

Whoa.

Random Restaurateur (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 August 2023 17:30 (seven months ago) link

He sounds great!

dinnerboat, Tuesday, 22 August 2023 18:50 (seven months ago) link

His voice is great but I am not sure about the arrangement . Need to listen again

curmudgeon, Thursday, 24 August 2023 04:55 (seven months ago) link

His voice is still in great shape, but he doesn't really sell these particular lyrics (he doesn't even attempt the note of doomed heartbreak Lou achieves in his vocals on the original, and Al Green can definitely do heartbreak if he wants to), and like 90% of everything Green has recorded away from Willie Mitchell, the production/arrangement seems to have no idea how to compliment his gorgeous voice.

MumblestheRevelator, Saturday, 26 August 2023 10:51 (seven months ago) link

Yeah, he floats above the melody.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:34 (seven months ago) link

Lou put Belle by Al Green in his top 10

https://www.clashmusic.com/news/lou-reed-once-named-his-10-favourite-albums/

bbq, Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:41 (seven months ago) link

He was well known as a big Al Green fan.

Monthly Python (Tom D.), Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:47 (seven months ago) link

there is something problematic with the verses being in a higher register than the chorus. maybe it's something a non-singer can pull off better than a singer.

Thus Sang Freud, Saturday, 26 August 2023 11:58 (seven months ago) link

the "You're going to reap just what you sow" outro has a very different vibe coming from the Rev. Green

Brad C., Saturday, 26 August 2023 17:42 (seven months ago) link

Al has always been Christian obviously, but I love this one from his “Christian” albums

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo-rWMAfbNs

bbq, Saturday, 26 August 2023 23:02 (seven months ago) link


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