― Will Burn, Thursday, 3 October 2002 00:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 00:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― A Giant Mechanical Ant (The Giant Mechanical Ant), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 00:49 (seventeen years ago) link
― Butt Dickass (Dick Butkus), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 01:26 (seventeen years ago) link
http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badassbuddy_com-slowburner.gif
― FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 28 April 2009 14:23 (fourteen years ago) link
i've been worrying lately that by the time my daughter grows up there will be no mode of rebellion left that won't have been co-opted or made to seem ridiculous. which was already starting to be an issue when i was a teen but it seemed like art still had the capacity to shock or make some kind of small difference at least.
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:36 (ten years ago) link
She could take down the surveillance state.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:38 (ten years ago) link
There's always Jihadism
― Bees Against Racism (Tom D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
i feel like even back in the '50s 'rebellious' stuff was often about how everything was so fake there was nothing left to rebel against (i.e. brando going 'whaddya got?')
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
there is, and probably will be, a lot of room for rebellion when it comes to shunning technology, ie 2013 cool marlon brando "doesn't even have a facebook account"
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
cell phone? you can only reach him by fax
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
The idea that adolescent rebellion has somehow become meaningless or impossible just strikes me as strange. Just repeat after me:
"I hate my parents and/or society. They're all so (insert scornful adjective)."
There. It's a wrap.
― Aimless, Monday, 10 June 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, June 10, 2013 1:36 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the mere fact that you, as her parent, are "worried" she will have no mode for rebellion kind of hilariously illustrates how dead rebellion is.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 June 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
i didn't really mean social rebellion (against parents/norms/etc), was thinking more about political rebellion - like what is she going to do when the government does something she thinks is wrong? what can she do that will make a difference or an impact? but i might be filtering this through my own feelings of inadequacy about not knowing what to do now about things the government does that i think are wrong
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link
i think this is a genuine/legit worry for our future. or rather our present. i'm tempted to say that popular pressure can make for small victories. but that isn't always true (i live in wisconsin FWIW, and all the protests have made nary a dent in the GOP's plan to turn the state into a fully privatized plutocracy) and small victories can seem like no victories at all when you take the full sweep of political change into view.
i think people assumed that n/a was referring to rebellion-as-lifestyle i.e. Punk© but he's not.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
"like what is she going to do when the government does something she thinks is wrong?"
bitch about it on facebook. just as her ancestors did.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
work and act locally outside of official channels. teach your daughter to do the same.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:10 (ten years ago) link
most effective "rebellions" against government occur when something severely impacts the lives of those who wind up protesting -- segregation, the draft, etc. "You peeked at our phone records" is just not a significant enough harm to get most people into the streets.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
grow vegetables together. read her mezz mezzro's autobiography. teach her how to defend herself. then let her out into the wild.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
teach her how to fish too. always a good thing to know.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:13 (ten years ago) link
also even effective rebellions didn't have immediate results
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:15 (ten years ago) link
struggle is its own reward
(i actually think people really need to believe that in order to keep on. unfortunately it's very hard to believe that.)
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:24 (ten years ago) link
But it's much easier to believe that when you don't otherwise have a comfortable life at your fingertips.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:19 (ten years ago) link
yes
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:22 (ten years ago) link
hash (mmm) tag drunk talk :taking in account that the internet of now helps to create more links of all sorts between people( experiences, goods and services , feels etc) and young people nowadays are getting sort of away from politics and invest their lives into socially conscious businesses , non profit organizations etc maybe in a couple of decades will pop up a need for a kind of news service that informs us of what "we" do, and the ameliorations in other workplaces will rejoice us not because we have a "big heart" but because it makes our life more liveable.
― Sébastien, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:36 (ten years ago) link
Rebelling is easy: Drink a beer, smoke a cigarette, and listen to rock 'n' roll music.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:48 (ten years ago) link
And/or get a tattoo.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:49 (ten years ago) link
p sure mlle. n/a will find plenty of ways to try to stick an oar in history and if she feels like she can't do that "anymore" by buying clothes and records well no shit right? maybe we're talking about different things here.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:54 (ten years ago) link
― scott seward, Monday, June 10, 2013 4:10 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
nothing wrong with doing that if that`s your bag but i don`t think that counts as rebellion
― flopson, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:59 (ten years ago) link
I think cities half-submerged will do wonders for rebellion.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:59 (ten years ago) link
history of the Aegean says no
― sleepish resistance (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:02 (ten years ago) link
half-submerged cities opens up all kinds of waterworld steampunk rebellious ways of dress
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:04 (ten years ago) link
but I guess if everyone dresses like they're in waterworld the only way to rebel is wearing a suit or something
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:05 (ten years ago) link
in a signifier saturated world the only true rebellion is to wear some old signifiers
― sleepish resistance (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:06 (ten years ago) link
"nothing wrong with doing that if that`s your bag but i don`t think that counts as rebellion"
i left out the part about mentally renouncing citizenship and never travelling more than 100 miles from your home and being as self-sufficient has humanly possible.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:24 (ten years ago) link
einh
― flopson, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:28 (ten years ago) link
i guess technically if everyone did that u might consider it a revolution
― flopson, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:29 (ten years ago) link
snark = revolution
― sleepish resistance (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:31 (ten years ago) link
idk why u would worry about this in the era of anonymous.
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:45 (ten years ago) link
Vote from the rooftops?
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:47 (ten years ago) link
xps noodle vague ok but i wasn't claiming that that snarky post was revolutionary!
i just don't think living on a yurt is revolutionary... you're supposed to fight power not just try to live beyond its grasp, right?
― flopson, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:49 (ten years ago) link
that's ok, i was as fucked with myself as you - once revolution becomes a school subject what's left but kicking yourself? too many meetings of like-minded souls bitching each other out?
yeah, revolution is all of us or none of us, you're right
― r common stop-pretendin (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:52 (ten years ago) link
hm. am i shadowbanned or hwattttt?
― Sébastien, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:00 (ten years ago) link
jokes
n/a's child is john connor
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:04 (ten years ago) link
t's s, s s s(hope u got the beat right)
― Sébastien, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:06 (ten years ago) link
"Withdrawing in disgust is not the same thing as apathy."
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:09 (ten years ago) link
^^ Sounds very Thomist.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:12 (ten years ago) link
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, June 10, 2013 11:09 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
No, it's much more narcissistic.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:19 (ten years ago) link
rebellion can be more than one thing.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:58 (ten years ago) link
or, you know, a goddamn recess appointment
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:15 (ten years ago) link
ps smash all authority
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:18 (ten years ago) link
heya hoos, have you read Graeber's The Democracy Project yet? I was reading the bookforum review of it last night (which also featured David Harvey's more neomarxist-influenced Rebel Cities) and it seemed well worth reading. i'll take my answer off the air.
― Z S, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
The wealthy and powerful certainly spend plenty of time and money to identify every lever of power and every avenue of influence they can use to pursue their goals. There is no contradiction between occupying public parks and banks or marching in the streets, and filing briefs with the SEC or lobbying Congress for friendly appointments in federal bureaucracies, if any of these steps can get you closer to your goals.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
yep. it's always frustrating to see people arguing for one avenue over the other when they're both necessary for change. it seems like a common structure of a breakthrough on an issue is 1) tangible and growing public protests, 2) people with access to the current framework of the institution working on realistic alternative policies, and 3) a highly visible event or series of events - financial breakdown, a scandal, a disaster - that draws media and wider public attention to the issue.
― Z S, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 17:37 (ten years ago) link
There's no doubt in my mind that the big Bonus March on Washington DC during the Hoover administration was useful for pushing FDR into more radical actions when he took over in 1933.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
ZS I haven't read Graeber's new one yet, though I've read a few reviews & am considering it. Trying to finish working my way through Black Flame first.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 20 June 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
great article on Left Unity http://viewpointmag.com/2013/06/13/dead-generations-and-unknown-continents-reflections-on-left-unity/
― flopson, Thursday, 20 June 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
yeah thats really really good imo
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 20 June 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
has anyone read this?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1016828_380734515371512_871868813_n.jpg
― scott seward, Friday, 21 June 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
i have it but have not read it! i'm told it's good.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 21 June 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link
Sounds interesting. Is there any evidence of a genuine uptick in people moving "off the grid"? There was a pretty big movement toward that kind of living in the 70s too.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 16:32 (ten years ago) link
in general, people need to stop thinking about how hippies did things. cuz it seems like a rebuke or something. not you, hurting! just in general. like, people shouldn't try new approaches cuz people did something like that once and now look where we are.
― scott seward, Friday, 21 June 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
i don't really understand what that post is saying, scott.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 21 June 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
i just meant if you mention "living off the grid" a lot of people immediately tie it to 60s/70s/hippies/etc. and it doesn't have to be like that. or worse they tie it to militias/survivalists/cults. it doesn't have to be any of those things.
― scott seward, Friday, 21 June 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
Living off the grid does require a broad skill set that replaces being plugged into systems that are self-managing. Acquiring that skill set doesn't have to happen all at once, if you don't dive straight into the deep end, but instead select skills you are interested in, one at a time, and learn them as you go along. A lot of the failures among hippies and back-to-nature types in the 70s, when this was big, was a failure to recognize how much they didn't know before they committed to the project. It's more sensible to ramp your way up to it slowly and intentionally.
― Aimless, Friday, 21 June 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
I think that the "oh that's a 70s thing" comes largely from the widespread failure of most of the people who tried to live off the grid to stick with it.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:10 (ten years ago) link
but yeah what aimless said
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:11 (ten years ago) link
I think "true independence" is kind of a ridiculous fantasy, but that's probably something the marketing department came up with right?
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:14 (ten years ago) link
wtf I am pretty sure I know that building
― the Spanish Porky's (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:14 (ten years ago) link
He edits the Web site Off-Grid.net in back of his RV, using a laptop plugged into a cigar lighter (and a wireless modem plugged into a laptop).
Ok, not gonna bother with this one.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
Also has an epigraph by "E.E. Schumacher" (smh)
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:19 (ten years ago) link
off the grid = a car battery?
― the Spanish Porky's (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:20 (ten years ago) link
and wireless internet!
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Friday, 21 June 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
there's no grid dude, it's wireless
lol
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 23 June 2013 02:05 (ten years ago) link
maybe he just means he pays his wireless bill in cash, or buys re-up cards for it at walmart
― j., Sunday, 23 June 2013 05:52 (ten years ago) link
Jul 4 70 I have become so obsessed lately with the hopelessness of any rebellion against authority that I can only assume that I have come to a sort of climacteric. I read the political page every day and am continually astounded by what I read.— Richard Burton (@BurtonDiaries) July 4, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:45 (four years ago) link
I was around in July 1970 and old enough to see and appreciate exactly what Mr. Burton was reading. Yes, the political state of the USA especially, but much of Europe, was plenty astounding and equally dispiriting.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:01 (four years ago) link