Let's talk about Vice Magazine

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dude, stop being so gay.

mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 13 October 2002 16:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

ps. "Ryan wears a shirt by Ben Sherman, pants by Dickies, shoes by Nike."

mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 13 October 2002 16:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

And the irony of it is that so-called politically correct language is repressive/regressive for the exact same reasons that co-opted hate speech is. "Spic" or "dyke" (said with one's tongue firmly planted in one's cheek) is neither more nor less decisive than bandying about hyphenated terms peppered with a sprinkling of "heritage". Or, for that matter, wearing an inverted pink triangle, reclaimed from Hitler's death camps. Either way one is reinforcing the concept of "racial" differences.

, Sunday, 13 October 2002 18:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

i love vice, its really funny and they like good music

s trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 October 2002 20:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

oy

Mitch Lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 13 October 2002 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

ethan your ability to vacillate between genius and idiocy astounds me.

jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 13 October 2002 22:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Well, I disagree. Ryan is in the Nan Goldin mold of selling pictures of his friends and his lifestyle. While that may be problematical when he gets to Corinne Day's level ('Oh Kate Moss is just my friend, I photograph her when she has her tampon in and just happens to be lying naked on my shitty carpet...'), for the time being it's refreshing. And instead of Corinne Day, he may quite possibly turn into a Wolfgang Tillmans figure.

Gee, Momus. Have you been around the art schools, man? I've got a feeling you have. There's about a bazillion people doing the exact same thing Ryan's doing. Ryan is aggressively mediocre at it, no less. The whole Tillmans/Goldman thing is a fucking yawn. It's no-talent no-vision scenester snapshot crap. This shit's got to die, and Vice is just feeding it. That's enough of an argument against Vice as it is, before you get into their dubious politics.

Let's get to the heart of the matter with Ryan McGinley: he's a cute guy and he knows who to pal around with, and who to sleep with. He's a clever and ambitious guy, and a total hack of an artist.

franky, Sunday, 13 October 2002 22:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

So are we to take it, Jess, that your position here is that words are *not* changed by context? That they have an intrinsic, objective, unchanging power to offend?

What makes me cringe is the "some of my best friends are [oppressed minority], therefore it's OKAY for us to use the word [epithet]" card the Vice guys try to play. And of course the reportage about being on the scene with Actual Real Live blacks/gays/dwarves makes the magazine seem so very real and trenchant. < /sarcasm>

I have to wonder how their "best friends" feel when Mr. Badass Vice Editor uses these epithets to their faces at a party or something -- I mean, mileage varies, but I wonder if they're perfectly cool with it, or whether they just grin and bear it while secretly feeling offended. All I know is how I'd feel -- uncomfortable.

Jody Beth Rosen, Sunday, 13 October 2002 23:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

man vice even isnt about this shit, you people need to chill

s trife (simon_tr), Sunday, 13 October 2002 23:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

ethan, shut up.

jess (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 13 October 2002 23:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

And maybe their defense is "Well, why do they feel offended? Aha! See, we're making them think!" But that puts Vice in a weird position of assumed superiority, as if they're saying "We're gonna use your word and if you're offended you're just a reactionary fool, so if you know what's good for you, you'll stay in your place and shut up."

Jody Beth Rosen, Sunday, 13 October 2002 23:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

Okay. Let's say you're Billy. You're young, pretty and gay, you make records and you live in NYC. You want coverage.

Magazine A decides to pass over your orientation in discreet silence, because 'it's about the music, man.' Mag A is read by some people for whom homosexuality is actually not an acceptable lifestyle option. And we don't want to put them off buying your records, do we? Because you might influence them towards your decadent metropolitan views if you don't push their faces in them. So shut up already and you might get somewhere, boy.

Magazine B is militantly liberal. It tries to feature as many 'minority' artists as it can, and push their 'agendas'. It wants to talk about you as a 'new gay voice' in music. All its questions seem to angle for anecdotes about how you've been discriminated against and beaten up. The article will be a form of cultural reparation. Hardcore queer activists will ask you to speak at rallies after reading this piece. Whoopee!

Magazine C -- written by people you see all the time around town, some of whom you may even have had casual sex with, you can't remember -- calls you an 'art fag'. Actually, that's what you call your boyfriend too.

Momus (Momus), Monday, 14 October 2002 00:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

How is this a defense of the magazine, though? All you're saying is that there's one hypothetical guy out there who doesn't mind being called an art fag if it'll help him sell records.

Jody Beth Rosen, Monday, 14 October 2002 00:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Words change their meaning in time, according to who speaks them, to whom, with what degree of irony, and with what general context of affection or opprobrium.

Vice magazine is run by people who have set their watches to the correct time, in terms of what words have what meanings to what people. This is why people who make money from trends are buying into them, and have been for a while. They are not affectionately calling, say, Larry Clark, 'pedo' in their articles. But they are calling people, affectionately, 'faggot'. This should tell you something about the word 'faggot' in the year 2002.

Resistance to the 'decriminalisation' of words like 'faggot' can be conservatism disguised as 'sensitivity'. Vice magazine is not conservative. Some people on this thread are.

Momus (Momus), Monday, 14 October 2002 00:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

vice is worth every penny. if vice is so awful, why are you haters giving it lip service? just ignore it and leave it around for those of us who like it to pick up.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 14 October 2002 00:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

vice is worth every penny.

Well, it's free, so there ya go.

Jody Beth Rosen, Monday, 14 October 2002 00:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

not to put too fine a point on it

felicity (felicity), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

nick the real difference between you and i isn't politics. it's that i've a. actually taken it in the ass from another man and b. never tried to play the Art Fag. i don't find the word faggot Hilarious or Disarming coming from a bunch of snotty, slumming middle class post-grads anymore than i do coming from a passing pickup truck. (i know this is hard to understand from your seat atop the ivory irony stick, but rednecks still don't like fags...i know, i know...i'll let you digest that one for a moment.) perhaps in a world where people don't get assaulted outside gay themed festivals in small "liberal" college towns the word faggot can bring us all closer together. this is quite the utopia, i'll admit.

felicity, do you like goebbles?

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

given that I'm jewish, not especially, but I will defend your right to invoke him. I'm not afraid of words.

felicity (felicity), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

anyway, this is ridiculous. arguing with momus = pissing in the wind, and i'm hungry.

felicity, you know i was joking (since i am talking to you about it right now ha ha.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Two things.

1. One of Vice's contributing editors, Amy Kellner, a lesbian, DJs at an event called Art Fag Mondays in the Meat Packing District. She even named it.

2. We (and by 'we' I mean fags, non-fags, art fags and Vice readers) are a lot quicker and more creative when it comes to messing with language than Bushites in pickup trucks. So let's put the word 'faggot' more and more in a friendly context, and hear hostile uses of the word sounding increasingly lame. Eventually the hostiles will be forced to come up with a new term. It'll take them about ten years. Partly because they're not too smart. And partly because they believe that words do not change their meanings, and that the word 'faggot' is -- and will always be -- intrinsically insulting. They're wrong.

Momus (Momus), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

momus you may have a kernel of a point in there, somewhere, i'll admit. but the fact that you call them "bushites" and think that the word faggot will lose its power or its appeal as a slur in ten years just reinforces how divorced from reality you actually are.

a lot of young black men call themselves niggers. would you walk into a room and do the same? even 10-20-30-40 years after the initiation of civil rights?

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

and can we - at some point - stop pretending that new york has anything to do with the rest of the u.s. except in a sort of geological time lag sense. (and somehow i dont think gay clubs in the meat packing district will be one of its great cultural exports to the heartlands in 10-20 years.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 01:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

One of Vice's contributing editors, Amy Kellner, a lesbian, DJs at an event called Art Fag Mondays in the Meat Packing District. She even named it.

First of all, and I don't know how apropos this is but I'll say it anyway, "contributing editor" is often just a vanity title given to famous writers and other "cool" people whose butts senior editors smooch in order to look hipper by association. Occasionally they'll write an article or something.

As Jess already stated -- just because a subculture has adopted an ironic usage of an otherwise loaded word DOESN'T MEAN that the word is inoffensive anymore. YES there are gonna be some "fags" here and there who don't give a shit how the word is used, but it's not really fair to use those people as proof that IT'S OKAY to go around using hot-button words like that.

Jody Beth Rosen, Monday, 14 October 2002 01:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

The real reason to hate Vice is not because of its politics, but because some dumb cunt named Abby has her bootleg Canal Street ear rings showing up in the next issue. Fuck that fucking cunt ass bitch fucking slut twat fucker. Fuck her and her horse. I hope she dies and never has children because if she does I will fully doubt any possible existance of a benevolent god.

Fuck You Abby, Monday, 14 October 2002 01:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know, it seems like the same old hipster-posing-as-fratboy crap that's been around for years, like Punk Magazine, Don't Be a Faggot-era Beastie Boys, Forced Exposure. But with more money and a better fashion sense. Whooptie doo. Occasionally funny and I love all the pictures of the cute kids out at clubs, but most of the writing is just obnoxious. And yes, they seem a bit too impressed with their anti-PC shennanigans. Yawn.

In other words, Michael Daddino was absolutely right.

That Albini quote is so WRONG it's, I don't know, cute. "Anyone involved"? Like, did he ever go to a Bad Brains show? Were the gay and punk subcultures really intermingled anywhere outside of NY, London and LA, especially after the first couple of years?

Arthur (Arthur), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

momus, stop being such a crazy faggot.

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

(yup. looks pretty harsh to me.)

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

Shift, which came out of the same Montreal scene as Vice, is also a good magazine. I certainly don't say that Vice is the only magazine anyone should read. Balance it out with a whole bunch of other stuff, by all means.

Personally, I find the insistence on skate culture in Vice and Tokion and some other mags a little silly. But that may be a generational thing.

On the question of 'the revaluation of all values', nobody has made the smart objection to my argument, which is that recontextualising insults is a reactive stance, and allows the enemy to set the terms of the debate.

And the answer to that is... but I'm typing this in a computer store in Ginza. Must dash.

Momus (Momus), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

momus, while i largely agree with your fairly obvious assessment of language and meaning as fluid and dynamic, i think you're invoking it at an inopportune time.

your argument readily positions vice as vanguards of libertarian language. in general, you seem more than willing to bestow a whole lot of credit on them ("...run by people who have set their watches to the correct time..."), all the while discounting a much more likely possibility: that they're a bunch of meatheads who use words like "fag" and "kike" and "nigger" because it instantly earmarks them as different from virtually every other magazine in their demographic. the tired "we're trying to disempower the rich kid academics" bullshit comes much, much later.

what are the dangers of re-selling latent bigotry as 'realness'?

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

a must read

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

according to momus there are none! everything and it's opposite! nothing is as it seems in the crazy funhouse world!

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

felicity you are the queen bee, all playstation gameday players cannot faze you

s trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

excerpt from complaint posted on the vice message board:

"But although that might make you foolish, unthinking, and sadly all too typical these days, it doesn't make you bigots. No, what makes you bigots is under the Vice Guide to Evil where you listed "Israelis" as a runner-up. Not the Israeli government, not Israeli policy, just Israelis. Of course you wouldn't list all Muslims as evil because of Sept. 11, but it's somehow become politically correct and acceptable to consider all Israelis as "evil." Well, this is the exact same attitude as suicide bombers, who don't have any problems blowing up a family with little children, after all, they're Israelis, they're evil."

full response from gavin:

"Hey jewboy,
If you check the gang rape gavin thread you'll see a co-founder of the magazine defending Israel and the Jews."

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 14 October 2002 02:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Vice stinks of a conspiracy with the sole aim of getting laid. all's fair...

Aaron A., Monday, 14 October 2002 03:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

all bases covered!

mark p (Mark P), Monday, 14 October 2002 03:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

give me a fuckin break, ilx was always just about getting laid too, at least vice doesnt like 'anything by dj vadim'

s trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 October 2002 03:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

how come i've never gotten laid from the nihilism i've expressed on ilm then?

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 03:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

surely you have jess

s trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 October 2002 03:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

;-)

s trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 October 2002 03:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

well, not directly.

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 03:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

Never read the mag, nothing to say except to go on record again as finding "f-g" as well as "n-r" and even "n-a" offensive and distasteful in nearly all contexts. And those where I'm not offended (i.e. reclaimed by people they apply to) I still think the use is hideously misguided and counterproductive.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 14 October 2002 04:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

sterl you are no longer my nigga >:o

s trife (simon_tr), Monday, 14 October 2002 04:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

I should also mention, in the interest of full disclosure, that New York Press (the free weekly that ran the interview with the Vice editors) just ran a cover story on the national crisis of OMG FAT PEOPLE THEY ARE UGLY TAX THEM.

Jody Beth Rosen, Monday, 14 October 2002 04:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Saw this a bit late!

Vice is...okay. The thing with calling people art-fags in print which bugs me is that some readers will be clued in (and they might well be scenesters and/or 'friends of the mag') but people outside the loop/demographic might not be, so the meaning changes. So maybe it's not such a good idea. A good/entertaining writer doesn't need those words to fall back upon, so that's why I find the whole shtick kind of tiring.

There's an editorial argument that goes, 'make it conversational, like you're talking to your friends' and Vice does this. This is a risky strategy because half of the time, we talk utter bollocks to our friends and might not necessarily want to see that highlighted in print. Also, the supposedly 'inclusive' style which I feel included by is probably going to give off exclusion vibes to someone else, for whatever reason (I've never understood people who pick up magazines and wail about being hated by the stuck-up people who run them).

Also - and this is specific to something Nick wrote about the ex-Index lesbian contributor - magazines like to show editorial melting-pot but it would be more illuminating to see who's running the advertising department. Chances are it's mostly guys/ladette women with a more reactionary bent, who go to meetings with closet-conservative yuppie agency types who spend the whole time talking about art-fags etc in a non-inclusive, non-matey way.

Arthur: you should know this, but small cities' punk and gay scenes are often really tight and bear on each other - I think there's actually more separation in the larger cities. In smaller places, all the people who are 'different' wind up meeting each other eventually, and need each other. I think the words 'Husker Du' might be appropriate in this context!

Oh, and Ryan McGinley is a good enough photographer, but as opposed to Nan G or Wolfgang, he's perceived by fashion/magazine folk as being a bit of a wannabe and a bit too available. That's what happens when you land features in all the British mags at once, people think, shit, he must be about to be o.v.e.r. True, he's made good career moves, but is way too obviously inspired by what he could get in exchange for the pics of his friends/the portrayal of a scene based on how it's been for more original photographers.

And a few weeks ago Wolfgang told me he's not taking photos, or letting photos be taken of him, for a whole year. Not a careerist at all.

suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 October 2002 06:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't type long, now I'm in a computer store in Shimokitazawa...

Just wanted to say 'Yay Suzy!' and...

How come nobody in this thread used the word Gonzo? Is that libertarian journo tradition forgotten in the US, or only amongst Gen ILXers?

Momus (Momus), Monday, 14 October 2002 06:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

momus has zero buttsex cred

boxcubed (boxcubed), Monday, 14 October 2002 06:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

yet he's such a buttfuck at the same time.

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 06:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

(i learned to use "buttfuck" as a slur from vice.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 14 October 2002 06:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yay Nick!

Nobody uses gonzo because gonzo includes risk, ie. the distinct possibility of getting shot or surprised by one's surroundings. Edgy style magazines are not really edgy - any fule knos they're too attuned to what's going on not to recognise the need to succeed commercially. Such recognition includes making others take all the risk. You can then write about the addict/suicide/Other with gusto and go home to your six cats and meals for one, while planning what to do with that big paycheque and feeling cool because you're on a guestlist.

so Vice /= gonzo, capische? I'm just wondering if/how much they pay their writers. Give me that info and I'll be able to infer loads.

suzy (suzy), Monday, 14 October 2002 06:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm really interested in this show - Ross, should I watch the web series first or start with the first TV series?

NI, Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:30 (six years ago) link

fuck these people and their garbage programming

Οὖτις, Thursday, 30 November 2017 22:33 (six years ago) link

shakey, i understand that sentiment and agree for the most part, but this show is good and just marred by the vice name.

NI - start with the tv series, web series isn't as good or fleshed out, can always go backwards later :)

In a slipshod style (Ross), Friday, 1 December 2017 04:16 (six years ago) link

xp it's not just the name, when you watch it they get money

sleeve, Friday, 1 December 2017 04:21 (six years ago) link

^ fair point sleeve

In a slipshod style (Ross), Friday, 1 December 2017 04:29 (six years ago) link

Vice now just seems like "Internet Content, But With A Sneer(TM)"

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 1 December 2017 13:54 (six years ago) link

That wasn't intended to be related to sexual harassment allegations, which I also agree are not surprising.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 1 December 2017 13:55 (six years ago) link

xxxp, good job torrents exist then. Thanks Ross, will do that.

NI, Sunday, 3 December 2017 22:32 (six years ago) link

if you're not a ratings-reporting household, then watching on TV sends them no money

though if you do have the option of sending them a message that the specific content you approve of should be their focus, then watching it is a good way of doing that

or writing a letter to Spike Jonze I guess

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Monday, 4 December 2017 02:29 (six years ago) link

two weeks pass...

if anyone at vice wants to anonymously send me the things they wish they could tweet right now i'll just fire 'em off for ya

— Robyn Kanner (@robynkanner) December 23, 2017

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 24 December 2017 10:08 (six years ago) link

The NYT article apparently barely scratched the surface.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 24 December 2017 10:09 (six years ago) link

that thread is just... ugh. what a caravan of sleazers, operating in open view.

"Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Sunday, 24 December 2017 14:12 (six years ago) link

?

kolakube (Ross), Sunday, 24 December 2017 14:13 (six years ago) link

I mean the Vice higher-ups behaving so sleazily.

"Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Sunday, 24 December 2017 14:24 (six years ago) link

so much of this discussion reminds me of riot grrrl imagery -- where they attempted to establish a 'look' for themselves placing traditional female imagery and once-derogatory slogans into the context of punk rock clothing started off as sly commentary, but were soon co-opted by companies looking to make a buck off 'princess' and 'i stole your boyfriend' t-shirts for 11-year-olds. (see also: the wholesale erasure-of-SLUT-from-bare-midriff that made gwen stefani so initially successful.)

so wouldn't that sort of cycle be eventually repeated if the arguments momus espouses hold true -- and wouldn't the underlying message of these mass-marketed uses of these words, then, also mutate into an affirmation of already-existing prejuidices that are held by the majority of americans, for the simple purpose of making as many dollars as possible?

― maura (maura), Monday, October 14, 2002 12:26 PM (fifteen years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

damn

omar little, Sunday, 24 December 2017 15:06 (six years ago) link

there it is

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 December 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link

capital gonna capital

maura, Sunday, 24 December 2017 19:05 (six years ago) link

the rise of the alt right, explained

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 December 2017 20:36 (six years ago) link

one month passes...

lol even the Viceland sex show (Slutever) had to have a weed episode

louise ck (milo z), Monday, 19 February 2018 01:18 (six years ago) link

one year passes...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEWpvc1XoAEmiZl?format=png&name=small

mookieproof, Friday, 13 September 2019 15:40 (four years ago) link

one year passes...

whoops

i warned you about colorization bro. i told u dawg https://t.co/7N007t2zwV

— bunny yeager air combat (@3liza) April 10, 2021


https://www.vice.com/en/article/epngbe/editorial-statement-regarding-photographs-of-khmer-rouge-victims

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 11 April 2021 19:49 (three years ago) link

Wtf did this dude think he was doing?!

FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 11 April 2021 22:20 (three years ago) link

nine months pass...

Not terribly shocking, but...

Vice Media secretly organised $20m Saudi government festival

When social media influencers turned up at the Azimuth music festival in the middle of the Saudi Arabian desert they were promised a festival of musical and gastronomic excess, all subsidised by an arm of the Saudi government.

What attendees did not know was that the pricey music festival was secretly organised by youth media company Vice, as part of the media company’s ongoing push to make money in the Middle Eastern state despite the country’s poor human rights record.

Just three years after Vice publicly announced that it was pausing all work in Saudi Arabia due to the fallout from the state-ordered murder of dissident Jamal Khashoggi, insiders at Vice told the Guardian the company was once again aggressively pursuing business opportunities in Saudi Arabia...

Hey they said they were 'pausing' work in the kingdom, so...

Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 1 February 2022 21:15 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

This article doesn't directly have to do with Vice, though it mentions it, but I didn't want to start a whole thread just for it: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/peter-thiel-anti-woke-film-festival-trevor-bazile

Posting it here because the whole vibe of this Thiel-funded film festival feels extremely early-Vice to me, the "post-Left" or "post-woke" thing is such a retread of anti-PC shtick of the late '90s/early '00s. Except arguably even more cynical. It's also a sad story about Trevor Bazile, who kind of floats through it like a ghost. And of course several of the organizers are guys with histories of sexual harassment. It's a rancid scene.

from the image in that piece i’d say peter thiel definitely subsists on the blood of innocent children

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Friday, 4 March 2022 12:36 (two years ago) link

He is a spectacularly vampiric dude.

He's high on the list of dicks whose deaths I will loudly and gloriously celebrate.

politics is about vibes and the vibes are off (stevie), Friday, 4 March 2022 13:54 (two years ago) link

one year passes...

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