BEHOLD THE GRIMACE: The Frank Miller Poll

im gonna reread ronin and get back 2 yall

Elektra in first round TKO. Then Daredevil and Ronin.

Shout out to his completely batshit screenplay to Robocop 2. Too bad the movie never quite fulfilled its promise.

Batman: Year One is amazing, maybe more due to mazzucchelli

^^^yeah that one is really good

just pretty impressive that it doesn't look dated at all. at least to me -- i'm kind of a lapsed comics fan these days.

i remember convincing my mom to buy me elektra lives again when i was an 11 year old ... and that is not a comic for an 11 year old. thanks mom!

Year One is probably the "sensible" choice for me, I mean it's very cleverly plotted, the dialogue is quite naturalistic, given the genre, it's very re-readable.

I voted for Elektra:Assassin though, that is some vibrant, insane shit, and it's not all down to Bill S' art, the dialogue easily lives up to it. The bit I particularly recall is where the bad guy is being refashioned into this cyborg killing machine at s.h.i.e.l.d. HQ, and there's this disembodied head suspended in a network of wires etc, and it's saying to the techs who are building the body - "guys, hey....getting any?" just fucking totally nuts & out there, I should pick it up again and read it, I haven't looked at it in years. I remember when it got up to the 2nd last issue, the anticipation for the last one was something big, how the hell would he resolve that lot? But he did.

I went to a signing that Sienkiewicz did at this comic shop in Newcastle, he had a portfolio of original art from the series, which was NOT for sale. I, no shit, mentally calculated what I could raise if I sold all my synthesizers and recording gear and offered it to him for one of the cover pieces, thanks but no, he said. Sienkiewicz was a real nice mellow guy, somewhere I have a real nice pen sketch of "Chastity", the female SHIELD agent he did for me for 10 UK pounds, in passing he dropped into the conversation that he'd based her on his girlfriend. Wow.

Sometime around "Hard Boiled" I kind of got the feeling that Frank Miller had turned to self-parody, unwittingly or otherwise, IDK, I lost interest.

"Elektra Lives Again" was a bum-out when I got it. v dissapointing.

kind of an ugly book though

― xX_420_GoKu_ChRiStWaRrIoR_Xx (Princess TamTam), Thursday, December 16, 2010 8:17 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

totally. i guess i should reconsider DK2 but i just remember being kinda wtf at the whole thing (being, of course, one of those fanboys who was expecting a rehash of DKR). plus i'm a reader that really prefers lots and lots of little panels and not one splash page after another of characters w/improbably huge clown feet

have never actually read "300" though, not sure if i should if its more like DK2 (it is, right?). glad to have confirmed that the homosexual overtones are intentional, though---i always had a tough time believing that miller could have such a huge blindspot.

still sorta hoping that 300 the film gets elevated to some kind of weirdo fanboy/camp classic, because i think it would be hilarious to have a 300 drinking game/screening where 300 beers must be consumed by the time the movie's over

im gonna reread ronin and get back 2 yall

don't bother! shakey has rose-coloured memory glasses.

one-shot he did with simon bisley in the mid-late 90s

it was a strip in GQ originally, not a one-shot [uncoincidentally around the same time that Hewlett did Meet The Freebies in The Face IIRC]

Surprised at the DK2 love here. That was awful--slapped together, crappy script, really lazy will-this-do art.

don't bother! shakey has rose-coloured memory glasses.

entirely possible! I haven't seen a copy of Ronin in like 10 years.

tbf I haven't looked at anything Frank Miller's done in around 10 years, except for maybe DK2. someone lent that to me a couple years ago.

I like DK2 -- so OTT, a guilty pleasure.

Didn't the first Sin City story with Marv come out 8 pages at a time in Dark Horse Presents? I remember that being a regular feature in that book, but I quit collecting comics and never finished it. One of the few comics I got in my period away from comics in the early-mid 90s was the first trade collecting that story.

DK2 is totally wacky. Millers artwork pretty much looks tossed off, which might be the point, on the later Sin City and DK2. DK2 looks like he busted it out with a Sharpy over a weekend.

Ronin was pretty much recieved as a WTF moment when that thing came out. There was bunches of those things on the shelves and in cheap bins for years, as stores bought it in droves but it was way too weird for the zombies to follow. That big fold out page in the climax was some pretty amazing print work in a mainstream published comic book at the time.

The format, color and production work on Dark Knight Returns was also just as influential. It and The Watchman also became pretty much the first mainstream comics to end up in a trade paperback and pretty much never fall out of print (at least for long).

tbf I haven't looked at anything Frank Miller's done in around 10 years, except for maybe DK2. someone lent that to me a couple years ago.

I think, beyond The Spirit (best movie where a cute kitty dissolves into a pair of eyeballs - prove me wrong) and that Gucci commercial, you've only missed All Star Batman And Robin, The Boy Wonder, which is just a set of very clever internet memes disguised as an ongoing comic series.

Didn't the first Sin City story with Marv come out 8 pages at a time in Dark Horse Presents?

BEHOLD THE GRIMACE: The Frank Miller Poll

The Sin City chapters were different lengths -- 8, 10, 12, 8, 9 etc -- and the art firmed up as it went along. (I dl'ed and reread it last night.) Marv changed so much from chapter 1 to chapter 13. It looks so spontaneous, like FM worked without any character designs or model sheets, just a splort from the id.

Didn't the first Sin City story with Marv come out 8 pages at a time in Dark Horse Presents?

Aye - collected in THE HARD GOODBYE, listed above.

ELEKTRA by eleventy billion. Utterly and completely unhinged. One of my favorite comics ever.

Maybe I should re-read this, but my memory says that it is very bad indeed - Messy unpleasant art and a schlocky story almost completely lacking in characters.

I remember someone saying that Frank Miller had written Daredevil, DKR, Ronin etc., while Elektra: Assasin and Hard Boiled had been written by his coke habit.

did this 'someone' know a good libel lawyer?

lol wut

I liked Ronin, but I also have rose-tinted glasses. It's pretty much a rip on a lot of manga ideas, for sure.

I can't believe I haven't read Elektra: Assassin. Going to try to fix that this weekend.

I stand by ELEKTRA, DV, but I didn't like it for its nuanced characters or intricate plot (though the first chapter is as straight-up experimental as anything Mr. Miller ever wrote) but because it is totally and completely mental. Granted, I was much younger at the time and that meant a lot more to me.

Subtle, it ain't.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

iirc The RoboCop vs Terminator thing had Walt Simonson on art... It's getting on for 20 years ago now, so I could be mistaken.

tbh It would be either Batman: Year One, Elektra: Assassin or Hard Boiled for Millar in collaboration with a stellar artist, and the first Hard Boiled (I refuse to call it The Hard Goodbye) or DKR for the whole Millar Art/Scripting package. It's a crying shame that Hard Boiled quickly turned into a ridiculous pastiche of itself.

Hang on I wanted to say something slightly different there... It should be Sin City in the second bit not Hard Boiled. For some reason I seem to have confused the two... I'll put it down to senility...

yeah so I didnt reread Ronin - I flipped through it though and the art's great! way better than i remembered. the story's just boring though.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

i was the only vote for year one? really? i do like the daredevil stuff i've read, but i guess i need to read more.

year one's a classic, judging by DKSA's showing there were a lot of challopollno poppers consumed here

yeah was kinda o_O at that placing too

My vote for it was no challop, as explained by my post above.

A bunch of us stated our love for it. Not surprised at all.

Pretty much my main reason for doing this poll - seeing how many people were like me and thought DKSA was the bee's knees. I like to imagine - in the future, when I've lost any semblence of sanity - I'll find myself uttering Batman's final words in that comic without a trace of self-consciousness.

I like Year One too, but that's more due to Mazzuchelli than Miller. Not that there isn't good stuff in his plots there, but you can also see a lot of his irritating Millerisms being solidified.

i expressed admiration for DKSA itt too, but it's a hideous book! year one is gorgeous. I totally hear you re: the irritating Millerisms though.

in retrospect i should've voted for Spawn/Batman

Yeah. Year One is super swell, no mark against it - I like Ace In The Hole's off-hand comment that it may be the only bit of restraint Miller's shown in his career.

i expressed admiration for DKSA itt too, but it's a hideous book!

Hideous? Different strokes for different folks.

Actually I didn't mean to be that dismissive. I'm sorry about that. It's just... I don't know how to qualify it as "hideous". I mean, lately I've been reading POWR MASTRS and BJ AND DA DOGS and lotsa Dikto SPIDER-MANs and a few other things and I could see how an immediate glance at those things might not reveal those things to be the most appealing items but put two panels together and you're hooked, ready to accept the work on its own terms.

And really I have my own standard for "hideous" and well, it's not DKSA. It's loud and garish and it really does shimmer, every panel fully committed to popping off the page, the nervous energy never letting up.

Clearly I'm prone to reverie.

Was looking at DK2 again tonight -- it's a big fun stoopid mess. I wouldn't call it hideous, but Lynn Varley is as much a downside in this one as she was an upside in DKReturns.

I thought I'd voted for Year One, but obviously I forgot.

always wanted to read ronin, plot sounds cool and liked what i've seen of the art.

is it worth £15?

no

yes

(says the guy who doesn't own a copy)

I only paid like twenty american dollars, so I don't know what to tell you.

Have seen plenty of library copies of Ronin in Scotland, might be worth ordering?

not miller, but over xmas at the parents' house i found my old copy of batman year two. it is terrible for the most part.

(says the guy who doesn't own a copy)

would you pay 15 quid for a copy?

I wonder if I voted in this? Probably would've gone for Year 1.

I recently reread both Dark Knights and Year One, and Born Again for the first time. Also bought a used Ronin tpb - I read that as it came out and then gave up on comics for my teenage years before the final issue came out - haven't cracked it open yet.
Of those I would have voted for DK1. I really like his artwork at that period. In DK2, he's just finessing it.

Jack Kirby was originally Jacob Kurtzberg, Stan Lee was Stanley Zeiber, and Bob Kane (who created Batman), his real given name was Eli Katz.

It's Stanley Leiber, and Bob Kane's real given name was Robert Kahn - Eli Katz was Gil Kane's real name.

I can't help but think it would be a different world today if he'd been called Stan Zee.

Born Again, for me.

I really like his artwork at that period. In DK2, he's just finessing it

First time anyone's ever used the word "finesse" to describe the DK2 art ^

Born Again is p good but so much of that is down to Mazzuchelli imo. DK2 is fun in a silly way, which makes it preferable to po-faced DK1.

The part in DK2 where Batman is cheering on hyper violence in the service of vengeance is always o_O and kind of liberating at he same time

Saw a story yesterday that Ben Wheatley and Tom Hiddleston want to do Miller/Darrow's Hard Boiled. I hope that one never gets out of development hell.

That'd be impossible to do justice too at less than an NC-17 rating.

But they could do a live action Big Guy & Rusty.

Reading through some of Miller's comics again, I lean that Ronin was as far out as he went. It was pretty strong to merge together two totally disparate comics influences in mixing Lonewolf & Cub with Moebius in such a story. The thing that caught with me on the last read is how well that Ronin fits into the 80s cyberpunk science fiction that was also going on.

hard boiled is the best example of batshit crazy violence and darrow's ultra-detailed style and it'd be such a waste as a movie unless it somehow had crazy detailed sets and some sort of visual gimmick that hasn't been done before
the actual story is deliciously thin and dissolves in art and the moments of "aw, shucks" dialogue

Agree with Earlnash, Ronin shows that Miller had the potential in him to develop cool sci-fi ideas into innovative graphic stories, which is why it's such a shame he later lost himself, at first, into noir pastiche macho bullshit, and, later, into Bat-shit insanity. Shades of his this potential can still be seen in Martha Washington, and the bits in Dark Knight Strikes Back that show us what happened to the old members of the Justice League, but Ronin is no doubt the most fully realised sci-fi comic he ever did.