Twin Peaks: Classic or Dud?

season 2 gets a lot of shit (kinda deservedly, though i've warmed to a lot of it on rewatches), but the handful of Lynch directed episodes are fucking GREAT. i think my favorite Twin Peaks stuff is in the second season.

this fucking scene...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWODXMtNmKc

lol, not in english.

if you don't like the stupid soap opera parts in s2 you don't like twin peaks imo

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

exactly. by then I was so immersed in the world of Twin Peaks I would've been happy to watch anything that was going on in that town no matter how stupid. it's kinda like saying "E2E4 is a masterpiece -- except for the guitar solo on side 2"

You know he's not actually an actor, right?

Huh, I thought he was an actor, but he'd just never worked on screen before.

Lynch seems to confirm that theory anyway: http://www.glastonberrygrove.net/reference/howbob/howbobb.html

Fwwm is so dark. Totally destroys me.

I saw it on the day it was released, at an afternoon matinee. After enduring all that darkness, I exited the theater to an uncharacteristically sunny Seattle day, and had to head for the nearest tavern just to get out of the light and ruminate on it all.

Finally finished the show. Man it really goes to shit toward the end, and the difference between Lynch/non-Lynch episodes is so stark. The finale (Lynch) is still pretty damn good.

Basically agree with what was said above about the Earle stuff -- lame, sophomoric hollywood serial killer bullshit with a smattering of torture porn. The buildup to the Miss Twin Peaks contest is so forced! There must be like 10 different scenes in 5 different episodes involving weak justifications for why a certain character enters the contest. The writing reminded me of improv sketches where the actors have to figure out how to work their way to an audience-suggested outcome, only not improv, so not excusable.

The black lodge stuff in the last episode is some of the scariest, most mind-warping television I've ever seen. But even with that episode I didn't really like the conclusion -- I didn't mind the loose ends, but I didn't buy the outcome with Dale Cooper.

This has been mentioned before, I think, but the basic reason season 2 is so uneven is that neither Lynch nor Frost apparently had any overall vision on how the series should progress, plus Lynch was away for most of season 2 after the first two episodes were filmed, so after Laura's murderer was revealed the writers were pretty much making stuff up as it went along. (Frost and Lynch wrote only three or four of the season 2 episodes, whereas they'd written most of season 1.)

Also, Lynch never wanted the murderer to be revealed; AFAIK his idea was that the murder mystery should gradually recede to the background, and the series should just be about the weird inhabitants of Twin Peaks. Frost and the network people disagreed and argued (with some justification, I think) that the viewers wanted to see the murder resolved. However, it looks like no one had any brilliant ideas on what to do with the series after the murderer was revealed. (I'm not sure why they decided to do the reveal mid-season instead of making it the season 2 finale, which would've made more sense dramatically.) It seems quite obvious Wyndom Earle was brought in as a second Big Villain after the Leland/Bob plot was resolved, but the problem was that Earle was never as interesting nor scary as Bob.

Season 2 scripts: http://www.glastonberrygrove.net/texts/

It's really interesting to see the stuff Lynch threw out from the final episode (and I don't think anyone would argue that it wasn't better for it) - most of that overwrought Earle speech is gone, and the whole of the Black Lodge sequence (apparently all the Red Room scenes were improvised on set).

I also like how the bank sequence is transformed from something fairly mundane on paper into a kind of absurdist comedy in the actual episode, with that massive wide angle shot and the very, very slow progress of the banker.

I dunno really, I feel like saying twin peaks s2 is cliched or whatever misses the point, the entire show is ultra cheesey, isn't it that way from minute one? S2 is like the raw essence of the show, no plot just wandering around in that world.

But from the season 2 sceptic point of view, the joy of TP is its really uncanny manipulation, stretching and reshaping of the cheese for non-rational effects, and there's a lot less of that iirc.

Don't agree - it's far more saturated with soap plots than S1:

Nadine and Mike
James and Evelyn
Bobby and Shelly with Leo in a wheelchair
Donna and Harold
Ben Horne and the civil war
Leland's obbession with music
M.T Wentz
Mr Tojamura
Gordon Cole and Shelly

Only James and Evelyn isn't great, from that list!

Donna and Harold a bit dumb too I'll grant...

The subplots are hit or miss for me--I've never really thought of them in terms of season one and season two. Nadine/Mike, James/Evelyn, and Ben's Civil War obsession, those ones I didn't like at all; Gordon Cole and Shelly I loved, plus some others not listed. I don't remember M.T. Wentz at all--was that the character played by Sue Ellen Mischke?

wentz was the food critic, never shown on camera iirc. sue ellen was eckhardts bodyguard.

wentz turned out to be shelley's mother iirc

Now I remember Wentz. Not Shelly's mother--Norma's.

The black lodge stuff in the last episode is some of the scariest, most mind-warping television I've ever seen. But even with that episode I didn't really like the conclusion -- I didn't mind the loose ends, but I didn't buy the outcome with Dale Cooper.

― I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2), Thursday, December 23, 2010 1:46 AM (8 hours ago) Bookmark

kinda think if you didn't buy the outcome with Cooper you aren't appreciating the nature of Bob

I bought the ending, I just found it disappointing. Cooper was such a stalwart throughout, such a paragon of virtue. That probably means the ending was very effective if it got to me on that level.

log lady looks exactly the same! how????

born old

i don't buy cooper as a paragon of virtue. he joined a vigilante group! ultimately the town ate him.

the ending casts such a perfect dark shadow over the whole series, the zany second season leading into it just makes it that much more of a punch in the gut

kinda think if you didn't buy the outcome with Cooper you aren't appreciating the nature of Bob

― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Thursday, 23 December 2010 15:30 (8 minutes ago)

I think there was some discussion of this above, but I really feel like the nature of Bob shifts in a disappointing way after the revelation of the murderer of Laura Palmer. Through that point, Bob is metaphorically a way of dealing with the sort of unprocessable horror of people who do things like rape their own daughters. I understand maybe there's also a theme in the show that all people have a certain kind of evil desire in them, but the whole deal-with-the-devil for annie's life thing doesn't really speak to this. I get that Bob is supernatural, but even supernatural things have rules to play by.

Also about the cheese being part of the show, I think it works much better when Lynch's imprint is felt than when it's not. The first season, even the episodes not directed by him, felt like part of a single vision. Toward the end of the second season it started to feel like the writers were completely at sea and had no idea what the show was.

Also about the cheese being part of the show, I think it works much better when Lynch's imprint is felt than when it's not. The first season, even the episodes not directed by him, felt like part of a single vision. Toward the end of the second season it started to feel like the writers were completely at sea and had no idea what the show was.

― I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2), Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:50 AM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah, agree with this 100%, but i think the way he ended it was about as close as he could come to redeeming the second season.

it had become a wacky clown train running off the tracks and he just threw down a giant black wall to halt it

Yeah, I felt that. It was like Lynch suddenly came home and the kids had so destroyed the house that he was just like, "fuck it, we're moving."

of all the dopey S2 subplots, Ben Horne and the civil war is easily my favorite. kinda wish there were whole episodes of it lol

ben horne is kind of my favorite thing about all of season 2 really, the civil war but also him keeping carrots in his pockets

yeah he's just one of the best characters hands down - every scene he's in is fun

But from the season 2 sceptic point of view, the joy of TP is its really uncanny manipulation, stretching and reshaping of the cheese for non-rational effects, and there's a lot less of that iirc.

― portrait of velleity (woof)

Also about the cheese being part of the show, I think it works much better when Lynch's imprint is felt than when it's not. The first season, even the episodes not directed by him, felt like part of a single vision. Toward the end of the second season it started to feel like the writers were completely at sea and had no idea what the show was.

― I can take a youtube that's seldom seen, flip it, now it's a meme (Hurting 2)

it had become a wacky clown train running off the tracks and he just threw down a giant black wall to halt it

― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar...

i clearly need to revisit season two as it's been quite some time, but from what i do recall, these ilxors otm. especially love woof's point about, "uncanny manipulation, stretching and reshaping of the cheese for non-rational effects." in the first season, there's a distinctly lynch-like tension between stilted oddness, deadpan comedy and inexplicable dread. as twin peaks progressed, though, that animating tension drained away and the show seemed to settle for aimless, self-referential wackiness as an end in itself. i found it alternately grating and charming, but it had none of the spark of the first season's best episodes - to say nothing of the stunning final episode.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lc98opkegw1qbz1oko1_500.gif

In the first season, there's a distinctly lynch-like tension between stilted oddness, deadpan comedy and inexplicable dread.

Yeah, this. And I feel like that tension in a way is what the show is about, because it conveys a sense of something not quite right and something otherworldly beneath the mundane surface of the town.

FWWM is devastating. it's something that i want to watch again and again, but it scares the hell out of me.

im watching "may the giant be with you" for prob the first time in 15 yrs -- coop sounds like lol larry king:

At a time like this, curiously, you begin to think of the things you
regret, or the things you might miss. I would like in general to treat people with much more care and respect. I would like to climb a tall hill, but not too tall, sit in the cool grass, but not too cool, and feel the sun on my face. I wish I could have cracked the Lindbergh kidnapping case. I would very much like to make love to a beautiful woman who I had a genuine affection for. And of course it goes without saying that I would like to visit Tibet. I wish that the Tibetan government would allow the Dalai Lama to return to his native land.
Oh, I would like that very much.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dvxz0uZ-1bI/TYaCbzTRFbI/AAAAAAAAAFg/pyY7bHLeNSU/s1600/RB+TP+43.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hrq1YU3eOvU/TYaIisGtnzI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/T6lZox-X1Hg/s1600/RB+TP+15.jpg

All things considered, being shot is not as bad as I always thought it might be. As long as you can keep the fear from your mind. I guess you could say that about most anything in life. It's not so bad as long as you can keep the fear from your mind.

http://inthetreesartpreview.blogspot.com/2011/03/photography-by-richard-beymer.html

Man, there's some creepy photos there.

First season? Classic. Second season? Mostly dud.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KYTqpprB7AY/TVOhbmzZD_I/AAAAAAAAAA8/M9dx9LrPltE/s1600/ConcentratingOnTheJs-copy.jpg

where is that from? I'd totally buy a print of that for my TP-crazy gf.

Now streaming on Netflix.

oh snap! xD

sorry Clay, forgot the link.
picture is from the Twin Peaks 20th Anniversary Art Exhibition
there's also some merchandise - do not click if you are poor/weak-willed

oli fuk i want to buy all those

shockingly, i've never watched this show. really should get around to it.

i got a new shirt!

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/217508_10150557577610305_673235304_17772119_601911_n.jpg