Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

I don't think MAYA is a mess at all.

It's sonically surprising but of a piece.

"...a lot of attention in the weird little pocket universe..."

^ note

The middle section of MAYA still feels like a lazy copout to me, like taking the "oh I'll just record any old shit" vibe of "Mango Pickle Down River" and extending it over three consecutive tracks.

"Teqkilla", "Lovalot" and "Illygirl" own tho

recent kanye is kinda glam

OTM:

http://www.soulstrut.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/67374/P420/
james
Posted: 07 December 2010 12:38 PM
I keep wishing this record were either smarter or more honest, one of the two. It's not honest enough that I feel like I'm really getting warts and all, but nor is it smart enough that I feel like whatever's being held back is being held back intentionally. It's not focused enough to be a real deep listen, but it's calculated enough that I can't quite convince myself to hear its inconsistency as, you know, a sign of its flawed humanity or whatever.

Sonically, I think it's kinda lacking presence. It's relevant, though, and you can't front on that.

It's definitely a weather-report record, and as such it does deliver a certain electricity. But while it may stand for a minute as a sonic/aspirational yardstick, I can't imagine that in and of itself it will still have much spark six months from now. I'll be surprised if this one retains cultural or individual resonance beyond its commercial moment like 808s did.

recent kanye is kinda glam

MDTF is his David Live.

belongs in a different thread, but i've sort of run in circles with MAYA. it initially struck me as bleak, hopelessly muddled and only occasionally successful, but i played it to death over the course of a week, and gradually came to love everything about it. but in retrospect, i've come back around in my appreciation to where i'm now somewhere between the two points. it's good, occasionally great, but the one thing it doesn't sound, to me, is "of a piece". it's more like a jigsaw puzzle than an album, and i keep changing the running order, swapping tracks in and out to make sense of it.

MBDTF has different problems, in that it does sound of a piece, but the whole is rather ugly. DJP OTM re: "teqkilla" (which threw me at first) and "illygirl", but i'd swap "lovealot" for "born free", "xxxo" and/or "meds & feds".

yeah that soulstrut post is pretty on point. not sure what graemlin would convey that, though.

nailing it down in that soulstrut post

soulstrut post pinpoints my problem with the album's POV and self-awareness. wish i could have thought that through and articulated it on my own, but i'm glad someone did. but, even if MBDTF isn't smart or honest enough to make real virtues of its many flaws, the absence of humanizing virtue helps give it a grotesque, darkly comic kind of trainwreck appeal.

the google connected to the government

("Born Free" and "XXXO" are also great; "Meds and Feds" is okay but I've come to enjoy the Sleigh Bells song it samples more)

For me, there are certain songs on this that will still spark six months from now ("Power", "Monster", "Runaway", "Hell of a Life", "Blame Game" and "Lost in the World"). As an overall album, this isn't as good as 808s or LR; I kind of view it on par with Graduation.

i still like this album, though i usually stop listening at "blame game" (i think i've maybe only heard "lost in the world" once or twice (!?!)). i don't really care how truthful it is or whether it's prog or glam, i just think it's a really visceral, exciting album. it fits in my wheelhouse of dense, energetic, loud music.

"lost in the world" is great though!

the Sleigh Bells song it samples

o_O

not much talk of the album concept/story here which is largely because you'd have to see the short film to really pick up on it and everyone just accepts that it's a really lame and So Appalling story right?

"Meds & Feds"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R86GH2wmx2o&feature=fvst

"Treats"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSuRHiW988

"samples" isn't the right word really, but yeah

oh ha i didn't read closely enough and didn't think you were talking about MIA

am still disgusted by it on a real level but in a way that doesn't interfere with the enjoyment

just like hard porn amirite

okay Kanye sampling "Rachel" would be kind of amazing

Has anyone gone hard on Runaway? I find myself liking the beat more and more but Kanye is p lame on top it. If it was 8 minutes of Pusha it would be A+++

i like it
it's a good sing-along song

Kanye is completely inconsequential on "Runaway"; that song is all hook and really all the better for it.

the part where he's belting out incompetently/incoherently "RUNAWAY FROM ME BEH BEH DRNENENEN CRAZY" is like the nadir of the album for me.

yr nutz!

you're into the vaguely melodic mumbling?

best part of the track imo.

but then it may be my fave track of the year.

you're into the vaguely melodic mumbling?

― some dude, Friday, December 10, 2010 1:38 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

wtf, isn't like sonic youth your favorite band?

really would love to hear some youtube fiend put the first verse of "Runaway" after the first chorus in Natalie Imbruglia's "Torn."

there's a huge difference between rock singers working within their limitations and a rapper trying to belt out a big R&B hook and collapsing into a puddle of consonants

that's a load of horseshit, Al.

would it have ruined the magic of the moment if Kanye went for a 2nd take and clearly enunciated every word?

the best part about kanye's singing is that it's out of his limitations

It's symbolic of Kanye's dick-on-his-sleeve emotional bravery

it would be like complaining that Thurston Moore can't hit all the same notes as Loverboy.

I will take Kanye shouting at the top of his lungs over the vaguely croony horseshit he does on "Dark Fantasy" every single fucking time

i dunno. but let's ask Mick Jagger why he couldn't be bothered to enunciate properly first, shall we?

xps

if only there was some sort of hint on the record that Kanye understood the value of indie-rock imperfections

it would be like complaining that Thurston Moore can't hit all the same notes as Loverboy.

pretty sure people would do this if SY made an album that tried to sound like loverboy

almost every note of Bon Iver singing on this album has Charlie Wilson higher in the mix. i'd probably be fine with CW singing the bridge of "Runaway," he can pull of what it sounds like Kanye's attempting.

i don't think kanye is trying to make an r kelly record croups

of shipley's criticisms of "runaway", the "how does it make you a jerk off to never take work of?" line rings a bit more true

that mumbly bridge is alright, but who amongst us is gonna defend the extended version of "runaway"

o/

yeesh

yeezy reupholstered my pussy rant > kanye mumbling into a vocoder for 4 mins

i don't think kanye is trying to make an r kelly record croups

no, but he's trying for a big emotional vocal climax beyond his reach, if Thurston Moore ever went for a "I want to spread my wings and FLYYYYY" Mike Reno moment, by god link plz that sounds hilarious.

yeah i mean...it's OK if you guys like "nijhehuCRAZYernernerner runaway as fast as you can" and I don't, turning it into "omg you like some bands that don't have great singers" is pretty pointless, probably all of us like lots of music by 'good' and 'bad' singers.