ILM POLLS THE 20TH CENTURY'S BEST TRACKS ››› YOUR RESULTS THREAD ‹‹‹

i don't think the ppl who voted's taste reflects that of ppl who didn't & i'm not sure ppl who voted's taste is more generalist than that of ppl who didn't.

and you base this on?

The poll was about 20th century, what 80s/90s rap counts as "ringtone"?

― Tuomas, Thursday, 9 December 2010 07:19 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLsfdunCImU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yctj5h7-Tcg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC6QoIUoe_0

How can you have ringtone rap in 1986 when ringtones didn't even exist?

did people not have phones in 1986 in finland?

also yeah i just threw that in to improve everyones morning. even geir could get down to it.

I'm pretty sure in 1986 you couldn't set a pop tune as your ringtone.

Seems I didn't understand your point, ogmor: you said the results were "lacking much noise/goon/dance/metal/uk nuum flavour" and I observed that (a) many of the posters most strongly associated with those genres didn't participate; (b) even if they had, and nominated/voted for Los Angeles Free Music Society or Burzum or whatever, I still wouldn't have expected those artists to get enough support to crack the top 125; (c) in general, people who vote in ILM polls != ILM posters as a whole. Not sure where "ringtone rap" comes in.

I will answer your questions Tuomas, since I asked one of them before, myself. "Nuum" is a (Simon Reynolds? or somebody like that haha) term for music on the continuum of dance/electronic music. I think "goon" is just rap, but not sure if that's an exclusively ILM thing or not. (Even if it is, I think it derives from broader slang.) But I mean, come on, you've never noticed "goon" in thread titles here and so forth?

Goon's a new one to me as well.

THE GOON! (started by David R. on board I Love Comics on 12-Jul-2007)

GOON OPERA vs MOVE ON RMX (started by it's darn and ielle is hot (and what) on board I Love Music on 25-Feb-2009)

Lock this goon-magnet thread pls (started by don on board Moderator Request Forum on 26-Sep-2005)

Did Global Goon make a song about a gibbon? (started by gareth on board I Love Music on 13-Mar-2002)

KuNT FACTory NAZZI GOON SUCK MADD DICK (started by Old School (sexyDancer) on board All Noise Dude Summertime Fun Board and Pickle Bar on 17-Sep-2005)

fennesz. global goon. mark bell. brothrom states. venetian snares (started by gareth on board I Love Music on 08-Feb-2002)

speaking of chris goss, the new goon moon album is pretty cool. (started by scott seward on board I Love Music on 25-Feb-2007)

*goon bat signal* plies on "lose my mind" vs plies on "wasted" (started by Youve Beenexposed (J0rdan S.) on board I Love Music on 16-Jun-2010)

rolling autogoon is p much seen as one of the ilm canon thread titles

nuum is a bit vague but the core is uk garage/2step/dubstep/funky/grime

my quarrel is just w/ the notion that there is some unambiguous ilx core middleground (& that any poll of 88 ilm ppl wld unearth it), not w/ the poll which has been full of top listening&bitching. i think seandalai's points are otm, but it's not that i think the list has neglected niche tastes, but that its worth noting that any set of 88 ilm ppl are going to come up w/ a peculiar, arbitrary list w/ outrageous omissions & differing consensuses. having it turn out that 10% of the 20th C's finest jams involve peter hook is not an inevitability 'given the sorts of ppl on ilx'. there such wide variation/deviation that any notion of 'ilx norm' is v weak & any midpoints wld be liable to move around a lot over different polls.

*there IS such wide variation...

lorax uk nuum != uk

I know, I just wanted to segue in my offhand comment: "UK flare was still evident in the results" :P

____________________________

One Vote Wonders: Galleria of Sadness playlist discussion (ILM Polls the 20th Century spin-off thread)
^
I updated the streamable playlist for songs that got only one vote but also were thrown tons of points (200-170)
So yall can check it out and post about it

nuum is a bit vague but the core is uk garage/2step/dubstep/funky/grime

We're talking about the entirety of the 20th Century, most of this stuff is peripheral or irrelevant. The 90s really feels like beginning of the 21st century music-wise, rather than the end of the 20th.

By irrelevent I mean "irrelevent due to being too late".

nuum is a bit vague but the core is uk garage/2step/dubstep/funky/grime

Okay, but except for UK garage I don't think these genres were around until the 21st century, so I don't get why you're complaining about their absence in "best of the 20th century" poll?

I assumed ogmor was being facetious when he bemoaned the absence of submarginal genres.

^ this makes more sense than lodging it as any kind of serious complaint. there was a shortage of disco & dance music, "avant garde" extremity and metal/punk in the final results, but so much of the 20th century got shorted that it hardly makes sense to suggest the results aren't really representative of ILM. we can't know how the people who didn't vote would have voted, after all...

Severe shortage of 90's rock... the only two 90's rock songs to hit the top 125 were 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' and 'Paranoid Android'. which are basically iceberg tip representatives of 90's rock. (and no, I don't consider Pulp - 'Common People' a rock song, it's much more poppy, and Bjork - Hyperballed is more adult alternative etc.)

But I didn't really expect much 90's rock to have hit the top 125 anyways - this isn't actually a complaint. I've accepted that 90's rock will live on in the "whatever man" category and I wouldn't have it any other way. Also, I don't think ILXors of a Certain Age are going to try to vibe with a lot of 90's indie/underground/alternative when they don't care much for 90's rock to begin with. I am a 90's dude and I don't claim to understand or try to understand 80's love for New Order etc.

Since I mostly pick at the surface of 80's music that might explain why 'This Charming Man' is my favorite Smiths song (which I love) and I'm relatively unaware of anything by The Smiths besides half their greatest hits

I was in my twenties for most of the 90s and I look back on a lot of the music made then with absolute disdain. Even some of the stuff I really, really liked. I can't really explain it other than to say some of it just doesn't retain its eternal mystery like the stuff I heard in my youth and teens, and the stuff I've heard over the last ten years of this century. The second half of the 90s is just a time I'd rather selectively remember one day, but I'm not in that place yet.

i have been hyperballed

I was in my twenties for most of the 90s and I look back on a lot of the music made then with absolute disdain. Even some of the stuff I really, really liked. I can't really explain it other than to say some of it just doesn't retain its eternal mystery like the stuff I heard in my youth and teens, and the stuff I've heard over the last ten years of this century. The second half of the 90s is just a time I'd rather selectively remember one day, but I'm not in that place yet.

100% otm in ways i cannot begin to describe.

IMO ppl who say this were not into drum n bass

I love that 'Gimme Shelter' placed so highly - they were channelling magic there

IMO ppl who say this were not into drum n bass

I wasn't, but it wasn't due to lack of exposure. I could just never get into like I did the more icy elements of IDM. But there was also the "lookitme!" of the period's hip-hop, the really droll post-rock, the horrible radio rock and the reemergence of boy bands and Britney/Xtina right at the tail end. Even bands I liked from earlier in the decade released some of their worst albums during that time.

It's weird how I can see it so clearly, yet if asked what I was listening to between 1995-99, I couldn't tell you with any certainty. Except I'd probably say it was a time I spent really getting to know older music...well, from the sixties and seventies anyway.

i was into drum & bass in the 90s and don't look back at plug with any more fondness than nirvana.

anyway:

I was in my twenties for most of the 90s and I look back on a lot of the music made then with absolute disdain. Even some of the stuff I really, really liked. I can't really explain it other than to say some of it just doesn't retain its eternal mystery like the stuff I heard in my youth and teens, and the stuff I've heard over the last ten years of this century. The second half of the 90s is just a time I'd rather selectively remember one day, but I'm not in that place yet.

here is the thing: the clothes that have just recently realized are unfashionable will always seem infinitely more hideous than the clothes you realized were unfashionable ages ago. it's possible to cherish the ridiculousness of the distant past, but we can only flee in abject horror from yesterday's mistakes.

I recommend going back to check out Panacea's Low Profile Darkness and Amon Tobin's Permutation.

95-99 were my formative years in terms of listening, but I'm not sure I voted for anything from that period. I guess the primary reasons are that my tastes have broadened into other areas (I was a resolute proto-fuxxor at the time) and that my knowledge of what preceded means the "achievements" of the 90s don't stand out for me as much as they used to. I might throw dEUS/Morphine/Tindersticks/GYBE/AMT/SY a few places in my Top 500 but they don't make my Top 100.

The point about drum and bass seems plausible though. I had no idea about such things.

I just can't fathom hating the late 90s since it's like the heyday of jungle/dnb/trip-hop

Also there were some excellent, game-changing albums from Orbital and Underworld in that time period.

don't forget about good 90s rock :|
le sigh

I still listen to Archers of Loaf, Guided By Voices and, if I'm feeling masochistic, some Pavement. Less Superchunk than I used to, but even at the time I knew their post-On the Mouth albums weren't as good.

I find I actually do have some weird affection for some of the big rock radio hits of the era, though, but that's mostly because I heard them a zillion times while I was delivering pizza. ("If You Could Only See" by Tonic, for example)

a lot of what you still like 90s-wise is BLANDDDDDD

Eh, I likes what I likes.

I just can't fathom hating the late 90s since it's like the heyday of jungle/dnb/trip-hop

My biggest problem with the poll results was that the whole 15 year period of electronic dance music from mid-80s to 1999 (house, techno, jungle, trance, drum'n'bass, big beat, etc) was represented by just one track, "Pump Up the Volume". That's more than a decade of highly influential and important stuff that was pretty much ignored - as far as I know, electronic music has never been as popular as it was in the 90s. (Except maybe in 2009-10.) I don't really know why this stuff didn't make the list... Maybe because the 90s are still too close to feel nostalgic about? Or because ILM has become more US-centric, and AFAIK Americans were much less into electronic music in the 90s than Europeans?

a lot of what you still like 90s-wise is BLANDDDDDD

eh, a lot of what everybody likes is BLANDDDDDD (how many Ds?) if you don't like it. like amon tobin always kinda bored me, but maybe i was listening to the wrong albums/tracks.

in defense of 90s rock: melvins, cheater slicks, royal trux, karp, sun city girls, new bomb turks, jesus lizard, unrest, brainiac, polvo, sleep, kyuss, sonic youth, swans, boredoms, teenage fanclub, electric wizard, unwound, teengenerate, spiritualized, country teasers, urge overkill, monoshock, the fall, th faith healers, GBV, headcoats/childish, gories, mr. bungle, buffalo daughter, cathedral, circle, cynics, tav falco, the magic hour, steel pole bath tub, bassholes, jon spencer BX, the ex, the kent 3, laughing hyenas, monster magnet, godflesh, oblivians, angel'in heavy syrup, rocket from the crypt, terminal cheesecake, brainbombs, fushitsusha, entombed, the mummies, ST-37, yura yura teikoku, dog faced hermans, ETC

I wouldn't even recognize music from 4/5ths of your list. Just goes to show how little people know about 90's rock (which is the point I've been hinting at). People shouldn't dismiss 90's rock when they don't know 90's rock. End of story

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeuHjrttE_I

I recognize about 95% of contenderizer's shortlist there, and listened to a fair chunk of it at the time, but I've got almost zero desire to do that now.

By the way, that's a pretty big net he cast with that list stylistically. What 90s rock are you referring to anyway?

apparently not contenderizers favs :/
I can make a shortlist tomorrow

My biggest problem with the poll results was that the whole 15 year period of electronic dance music from mid-80s to 1999 (house, techno, jungle, trance, drum'n'bass, big beat, etc) was represented by just one track, "Pump Up the Volume"... I don't really know why this stuff didn't make the list... Maybe because the 90s are still too close to feel nostalgic about? Or because ILM has become more US-centric, and AFAIK Americans were much less into electronic music in the 90s than Europeans?

fair complaint, but the run-up process took several weeks. during that time, the nominations thread was rarely far from the top of ILM's main page. i.e., most everybody who visits here even occasionally had time to get their favorites on the ballot. and it's not like "pump up the volume" was the only semi-contemporary electronic dance track nominated. the rest just didn't make the final cut. me, i wound up striking stuff like "one more time" and "music sounds better with you" pretty early in the process.

xp to Johnny Fever
(also my jab on you liking some "bland stuff" like pavement was retaliation of what you said about Can upthread - and yeah, bland is different for everyone)

Fair. I don't hate Can, but I definitely don't love them either. Except "Turtles Have Short Legs". I love that one.

I don't even know which Can song is that one. What do you feel about their short more pop oriented songs? Like say; Moonshake, Mushroom, I'm so Green...

as this is not clear; i'm not complaining that this list is unrepresentative of ilm due to the lack of T.I., rangda & terror danjah. however when i initially brought up dance/goon/noise shit i was not being facetious & i believe there is more diversity&variety on ilm than would be likely to appear on any 88 ballot poll.

it wld be odd if ppl w/ different interests in music of the present had similar interests in music from the past. most music discussed on the noise board isn't noise, but there is def a noise board ethos/flavour & v little of it was nominated for this list. i am sceptical of the idea that talkings heads & kate bush form part of the glue which unites the various ilx subgroups.

a poll this size will likely be fun & not v revealing about the broad workings of the landscape of ilx taste.

contenderizer's almost saying - "the results of a poll are representative if everyone had the opportunity to take part" - ...

moka you should get to know "turtles have short legs"

xpost Most of the 90's bands listed above that I recognize are cool.. However, except for Sonic Youth (who placed) and maybe Guided By Voices (although that's pushing it), I don't think any of them have written or recorded any of the 100 or 200 best songs of the 20th century, whereas (IMO) Nirvana and Radiohead most certainly have.

Regarding electronic dance music, that genre has sort of made a point out of not wanting to have a "canon", so there is probably more of a voice split than in the case of rock and pop music and even hip-hop/R&B.

There are definitely a few canonical choices in '90s electronic/dance, though. I mean, if 18 year-old rock dude version of me bought the Utah Saints album in 1992, it must've had a sizeable impact outside of the club scene.

Listening to "turtles have short legs" right now. It's incredible! Very different from everything else they have in their catalogue (at least when Damo was in the band) I forgive JF for being a Can detractor for indirectly introducing me to it.

I think the closest it comes to is 'I'm So Green' which is my favorite Can song and iirc also Julian Cope's.

who the fuck are utah saints

Big dance act in the early 90s, had three top 10 singles and a top 10 album in the UK, and they were quite popular elsewhere in Europe too.

Utah Saints - Classic Or Dud?

Based on the above thread many Americans seem to have heard them back then too, don't know why or how. Anyway, you might've been too young to register them back then. They pretty much disappeared after the first album, releasing only one single in 1995 (which is dope, btw). They put out a comeback album in 2000, but I don't think too many people cared about that, even though it features Chuck D and Michael Stipe.