Um, I Think It's Time for a Thread on WikiLeaks

coming soon: ufo cables!?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40491489/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/

what is the point of this

― goat, camel, horse, and water buffalo (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, December 6, 2010 11:02 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

piss ppl off i dunno. while i'm sure some of it will be news to potential terrorists, i'm guessing most of it is like 'yeah duh'

feel like in the post wikileaks future you could see leak dumps just posted to bittorrent or whatever and the government will be pining for the days of redactions and a public figure to blame

^^^yeah. Assange's cult of personality routine is their biggest weakness

and liability, etc.

this media storm is basically acting as a proof of concept to potential future leakers

internet payment giant PayPal

The national security sites thing is just a dumb move, it's not even that interesting/surprising by and large, and will only be interpreted as "checklist of terrorist bomb targets". Public opinion is still kinda confused when it comes to Wikileaks but this is the sort of thing that turns it against you. It looks like posturing, basically.

piss ppl off

I think he already had this covered lol. at this point it's hard not to assume that Assange is a glutton for punishment/pining for martyrdom

put secret shit on the internet and people will take notice

feel like in the post wikileaks future you could see leak dumps just posted to bittorrent or whatever and the government will be pining for the days of redactions and a public figure to blame

― ice cr?m, Monday, December 6, 2010 11:07 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yup. which is sorta already the case, now that there's tons of mirrors up. plus, his 'nuclear option'

morbsian prediction: site on list gets bombed in US false-flag operation, assange gets brought up on some kind of terrorist-y charges, thrown down the memory hole

agreed it might be weird, but its also hella incomplete, according to greenwald. i just think that the simpler explanation ("22yo cracks under pressure") is more plausible than the alternative ("US govt orchestrates a plan wherein, by intentionally 'leaking' secret documents and causing a furor, it can justify neutralizing WL as threat and dissuade future informants from going to the press"). the morbsian in me thinks that the conspiracy theory isn't actually ~that~ implausible, but the potential for it to backfire seems big enough that i highly doubt that what we're watching unfold is anything that was planned out in advance.

― kanellos (gbx), Monday, December 6, 2010 11:29 AM (35 minutes ago)

fwiw i have not read a single person who has suggested the govt was involved in the leaking at all.

coverup!

morbsian prediction: site on list gets bombed in US false-flag operation, assange gets brought up on some kind of terrorist-y charges, thrown down the memory hole

― kanellos (gbx), Monday, December 6, 2010 12:11 PM

i think the u.s. can easily spin that leak as terrorist-y without a bombing

Couldn't any idiot with a library card find out where ports, dams, mining operations, and a communications hub are? The first three are on maps, and the fouth, well, any "hub" of ANYTHING needs employees -- a location of national importance probably employs the population of a small Southwestern city.

OH NOES THE PANAMA CANAL IS OF STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE, DON'T PASS IT ON!

sarah should feed him to grizzlies on her tv show

fwiw i have not read a single person who has suggested the govt was involved in the leaking at all.

― k3vin k., Monday, December 6, 2010 11:11 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

did you read the greenwald article that AB linked? he at least suggests it as a possibility

Couldn't any idiot with a library card find out where ports, dams, mining operations, and a communications hub are?

I would say no, otherwise the State Dept would have just gone to the library

morbsian prediction: site on list gets bombed in US false-flag operation, assange gets brought up on some kind of terrorist-y charges, thrown down the memory hole

― kanellos (gbx), Monday, December 6, 2010 12:11 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

Cue Internet Patriot Act.

as others have mentioned these leaks basically contain boring common knowledge - heres umberto eco in a typically for people famous for other things half assed half insightful piece pointing out that this intel is entirely comprised of press clippings http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/article/414871-not-such-wicked-leaks

Im only interested in these UFO leaks now!

The thing that still worries me most about all this is what kind of legislation is now going to get rammed through to close the "gaps" Eric Holder talked about (i.e. to make illegal what have until now been probably-legal activities). Because that's going to apply to a hell of a lot more than WikiLeaks.

the list is really a non-issue

The list is part of a lengthy cable the State Department sent in February 2009 to its posts around the world. The cable asked American diplomats to identify key resources, facilities and installations outside the United States "whose loss could critically impact the public health, economic security, and/or national and homeland security of the United States."

this is basically just a way of asking diplomats: "hey, what's in yr area that the state dept ought to be interested in? anything new that we dont already know about?" i sincerely doubt the request was made with an eye to terrorism, and the "prevention" thereof. it's not like they were setting out to make a list of Places Terrorists Might Want To Blow-Up.

worth noting, too, that WL didn't highlight this specific document, CNN did!

tipsy: agreed, the most worrisome thing about all this is that it will be used as an excuse to crack down even more tightly on journalism and transparency. but i think if yr gonna blame WL for that (as balls was sorta doing upthread), it's veering pretty close to 'well what do you expect, dressing like that' territory.

"What WikiLeaks has done amounts to espionage in a most serious form," said Lieberman. "It's probably the most terrible act and greatest act of espionage against the United States in our history."

stfu u fukkin clown

jeez even i think the rosenbergs were guilty

http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2010/12/what-is-julian-assange-up-to.html

this is going around. i'm about halfway through and it's pretty good

sorry if it's on the thread already

what is it

tryin to get signed to kompakt is what he's up to

http://www.3quarksdaily.com/.a/6a00d8341c562c53ef0148c670d250970c-800wi

He's got Bono's eyes.

Assange’s strategy starts from the premise that authoritarian governments--among which he includes the U.S. and other major and semimajor world powers--are, at root, conspiracies. Diagnosing authoritarian governments as conspiracies allows Assange, ever the hacker, to put secrecy at the heart of his political philosophy. He sees the secret (or “conspiratorial interaction”) not only as the sine qua non of the conspiracy but as the actual source of the conspiracy's power:

Where details are known as to the inner workings of authoritarian regimes, we see conspiratorial interactions among the political elite not merely for preferment or favor within the regime but as the primary planning methodology behind maintaining or strengthening authoritarian power.

this is kind of idiotic and juvenile.

Bill Maher + Colin Mochrie =

http://i.imgur.com/4JNLc.jpg

lol

how? sounds like authoritarianism 101

maybe classifying the US as authoritarian is juvenile, as well as his aspirations, but the rest seems ok

lol I kept thinking he looked like maher and one of the dudes from kids in the hall

Where details are known as to the inner workings of authoritarian regimes, we see conspiratorial interactions among the political elite not merely for preferment or favor within the regime but as the primary planning methodology behind maintaining or strengthening authoritarian power.

like, dude, this is pretty much exactly how you could characterize dprk/Stalin/Argentina/etc.

why no mention of internet payment giant I Rate Everything?

how? sounds like authoritarianism 101

the US, Great Britain, France, etc. do not function this way. sorry. they just really aren't that coordinated.

oh sure.

(not sarcasm)

also, secrecy on some level or another is essential to politics, perhaps even the essence of politics. politics is about the management of power, more specifically, about the negotiations that allow groups & individuals with differing aims to cooperatively interact. to insist that all legitimate political interaction must take place out in the open, with 100% transparency at all times, is not only juvenile and simplistic, but absurd. it's not going to happen. such an insistence will only force the more subtle aspects of political interaction further underground - or else result in a backlash against the very idea of political transparency, which is exactly what seems to be happening here.

not saying that governments shouldn't be held accountable, shouldn't be pressured toward as much transparency as is feasible, but it's not a black and white issue: good openness vs. bad "conspiracy".

such an insistence will only force the more subtle aspects of political interaction further underground - or else result in a backlash against the very idea of political transparency, which is exactly what seems to be happening here.

^^^this is absolutely what's going to happen/is happening right now. way to go Julian!

in exchange we learned critical things about the US gov't like they think Berlusconi is a lecherous playboy and the Panama Canal is critical to our national security! good t rade-off.

be patient ufo cables on the way

As Assange told Time: “It is not our goal to achieve a more transparent society; it's our goal to achieve a more just society.”

leakfail

he seems deeply, deeply inept from a tactical standpoint cuz he is not achieving his goal