Um, I Think It's Time for a Thread on WikiLeaks

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/

This is a very very interesting read, Trayce.

Though he's pretty patronizing of Sweden. I'm betting whatever laws are in question are in place to protect the rights of women, and on that front they have been way ahead of most of the world for a long time.

Certainly, but I'm always dubious of the idea that a woman can leverage any accusation into an actual criminal charge that easily (sex without a condom = rape? uh). But lets not turn this into a discussion on rape laws cos erk.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2em1mog.png

Good thing there's no other way for any one of the 2.5 million people with this kind of information access to leak it on the internet!

got this from digby: http://www.nationaljournal.com/columns/common-sense/maybe-the-government-would-earn-more-of-our-trust-if-it-invaded-our-privacy-less-20101202

In Washington’s polarized political environment, Republicans and Democrats seem to agree on a few things: That the government, in the name of fighting terrorism, has the right to listen in on all of our phone conversations and read our e-mails, even if it has no compelling reason for doing so. That the government can use machines at the airport that basically conduct the equivalent of strip searches of every passenger. That the government, for as long as it wants, can withhold any information from the public that it decides is in the national interest and is classified. And that when someone reveals this information, they are reviled on all sides, with the press corps staying silent.

My own sense is that we should err on the side of telling the truth, even when it’s inconvenient or when it makes our lives—or the business of government—more complicated. And that people who tell the truth should at the very least not be denigrated.

is that what Assange is doing here tho, really? Does "telling the truth" = being kinda jerky?

truthfulness for its own sake is p. overrated

Gotta say that in an age of unprecedented loss of privacy, where citizens of the world have been continuously spied on by their gov'ts often without any reason in public and private, it feels nice - at a base, emotional level - to have the gov'ts get a taste of their own medicine.

Also, its important to remember that "Information wants to be free" has been a hacker M.O. since the 70s.

unprecedented? also 'turnabout is fairplay' historically a great justification, esp if it's the only justification. still amazed the left is so giddy over the (further) destruction of diplomacy as a tool/option in american foreign policy and that ilx didn't rally around karl rove and scooter libby back in the day (how long until an administration figures out how to manipulate this type of leakdump to sell a war? 2 years? 6?)(plus unlike w/ yellowcakegate plausible deniability is builtin). but hey at least 'they' got a taste of their own medicine! totally understand how this is all great if you're a libertarian; i guess i just had no idea there were so many libertarians on ilx (i mean i know morbs is a ron paul supporter).

also love how the other actual policy effect to come from this (besides yknow more american unilateralism) is increased secrecy. showed them!

it is amazing though to think that before 9/11 the govt wasn't able to perform wiretaps or strip search passengers at airports or classify information under the blanket of national security (remember how they used to broadcast sub movements right after they did the lotto drawing?). what a strange new world we live in.

'Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.'

"still amazed the left is so giddy over the (further) destruction of diplomacy as a tool/option in american foreign policy"

Haha what bullshit.

Way more disturbed at how easily near-monopolistic services like Paypal and Amazon are rolling over to US Gov at the drop of a hat than anything Assange/Wikileaks has done.

I don't think they're rolling over to the US Gov as much as they don't want to get involved w/ shit that really can't benefit them

funny timing

xp iatee I have a bridge to sell you...

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/138658/GLENN-BECK-CHALKBOARD.jpg

still amazed the left is so giddy over the (further) destruction of diplomacy as a tool/option in american foreign policy

If anything 'destroyed diplomacy as a tool,' it's telling Foreign Service bureaucrats to act like James Bond given half a chance.

remind me again the cost-benefit analysis of paypal/amazon association w/ scooter assange

benefit: become business-hero to this thread, various other msg board threads

cost: none, absolutely none

shocked shocked to find out intel falls under the state dept's purview. next you'll tell me the fed has some influence on monetary policy.

smug jeering at "the left" for not supporting whatever the government wants to do = hey, it must be 2003 again

intel isn't really supposed to fall under the state dept's purview, btw

blindly opposing the govt, esp the idea of diplomacy, due to conspiracy minded ranting libertarianism = nope, it's still 2010

what's yr point, dude

having opinions what the fuck

it is amazing though to think that before 9/11 the govt wasn't able to perform wiretaps or strip search passengers at airports or classify information under the blanket of national security (remember how they used to broadcast sub movements right after they did the lotto drawing?). what a strange new world we live in.

Yeah, whoever said all these things....man are they ever wrong!

But Balls, yeah you're right about all that. Destruction of privacy been goin' on forever. I have some underground comic from the 70s parodying JFK assassination conspiracies, and they go on and on about warrant-less gov't wiretaps on civilians, the absurd volume of top secret documents churned out daily, etc.

lol at people "opposing the idea of diplomacy" - yes, that's precisely what outrages people about government misconduct, its diplomacy being on the up-and-up

i mean at least when karl and scooter pulled this shit they actually achieved their end goal. if you're gonna lean on 'the ends justify the means' it help to actually achive the ends. unless the ends just = get to feel good about 'giving them a taste of their medicine'. which w/ the left it apparently always is.

blindly opposing the govt, esp the idea of diplomacy, due to conspiracy minded ranting libertarianism

http://startright-llc.com/blog-im/StrawMan.png

i mean at least when karl and scooter pulled this shit they actually achieved their end goal. if you're gonna lean on 'the ends justify the means' it help to actually achive the ends. unless the ends just = get to feel good about 'giving them a taste of their medicine'. which w/ the left it apparently always is.

still can't figure out who you're arguing with

really 'give them a taste of their own medicine' as sole criteria isn't blind opposition to govt? beck's more sophisticated.

oh n/m i guess i glossed adam's 'taste of own medicine' comment (which, it should be noted, was qualified pretty explicitly)

if there's a goal of the left that's actually being helped by wikileaks plz let me know what and how. what ends are being furthered here?

also love how the other actual policy effect to come from this (besides yknow more american unilateralism) is increased secrecy. showed them!

Thing is, hackers historically exploit flaws in systems and often have justified such actions by claiming that this actually does help increase security in said systems. Check it out:

The leak has also led the U.S. to tighten, not loosen, its security protocols. After consulting with the White House in the run-up to the WikiLeaks dump, State temporarily cut the link between its NCD database and SIPRNet. CentCom has reimposed its restrictions on using removable media, is newly requiring that a second person approve the download of classified information to an unsecure device and is installing software designed to detect suspicious handling of secrets.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2034276-4,00.html#ixzz17AaiwxC8

'give them a taste of their own medicine' is my personal gut-level reaction. I didn't say this is the goal of Wikileaks, or reason for the leaks themselves.

so the goal of wikileaks is incresed secrecy and power to the national security apparatus? mission accomplished!

seriously though: if there's a goal of the left that's actually being helped by wikileaks plz let me know what and how. what ends are being furthered here?

1. new thing to be self-righteous about

wikileaks isn't a project of "the left"

seriously though: if there's a goal of the left that's actually being helped by wikileaks plz let me know what and how. what ends are being furthered here? note: wikileaks is not a project of 'the left'.

Which left are you talking about? The Australian left? The Swedish left?

i mean milosevic wasn't a project of the left either (well the american left at least) but i still was confused/disgusted when the left felt the need to go to bat for him (speaking of 2003).

the american left. preemptive: by american i mean 'united states'. feel free to answer what goals of the swedish left are actually being helped by wikileaks though.

yr question is smug and inane, dude, and presupposes the fact that no one will be able to answer it to yr satisfaction, which is precisely why you worded it that way.

balls I agree w/ you in general but talking about 'the left' is probably a bad way to go about it. there's no 'the left' and even 'the american left' is hard to define and has a strange and complicated composition. as you've mentioned lots of the people you're arguing w/ have more in common w/ ron paul than barack obama.

so I'd stick with 'angry internet people'