ILM POLLS THE 20TH CENTURY'S BEST TRACKS ››› YOUR RESULTS THREAD ‹‹‹

I'm slowly beginning to realize that it seems likely this poll will have no Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Jacques Brel, Sarah Vaughan, Edith Piaf, or Frank Sinatra. Even though the top 25 has been mostly good so far, the lack of those giants seems all kinds of wrong, especially considering that artistically limited bands like Smiths or Joy Division have multiple songs in the top 100.

the last bit is completely otm, the first bit probably otm too

I only listened to David Bowie's Heroes after I heard the Wallflowers cover. I think that made me appreciate it even more. Killer bassline!

oh my god, an overwhelmingly former-and-current indie audience voted a bunch of classic rock and indie heroes into the top 100 songs of the century over a bunch of jazz standards, surely this is the most unexpected result to come out of this poll aside from the shocking lack of Britten

tuomas - screw that, it has no eric b and rakim, nas, melle mel or premo. or grandmaster flash! seriously, no planet rock? i will be slightly annoyed

heroes is nice though.

Exactly how are The Smiths and Joy Division "artistically limited", Tuomas?

Ignoring Tuomas' personal (and thus inevitably wrong) opinion of 'artistically limited', I do think it's a shame that we don't even have a token from some of those big players. I don't even like half of them, but we definitely need more variation again.

xpost We *definitely* need 'Paid In Full' to make an appearance.

yeah sean. I'm a grump. Musicians playing on Sesame Street and the Muppet Show etc. is always a big turn-off for me. I'd much rather get inspired by awesome dance moves than watch a bunch of puppets getting down to a song.

11. KATE BUSH "Running Up That Hill (A Deal With God)" (1985) [2,446 points, 27 votes]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLlwUaEyr0

tuomas - screw that, it has no eric b and rakim, nas, melle mel or premo. or grandmaster flash! seriously, no planet rock? i will be slightly annoyed

I think "Planet Rock" and "The Message" still have some chances of showing up. But yeah, if neither of them is in the top 100, that is equally baffling and wrong.

xp - If "Love Hangover" had placed, I would have posted the crazy Muppet Show video.

lol

I love this song to bits, but coming on the heels of Tuomas and a hoy hoy's posts underlines my sarcasm nicely

lol ILM

xpost to johnny fever

great song but only my 4th favorite on that record after "hello earth", "cloudbusting", and "hounds of love"

Only things I could think of to nominate for this tbh were "Devil Got My Woman" - which somebody else nominated and I assume finished nowhere, fuck you very much - and Charles Ives' The Unanswered Question, which clearly couldn't hope to outgun something as great as "This Charming Man". So the lesson is: don't play, just bitch.

I'm slowly beginning to realize that it seems likely this poll will have no Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Jacques Brel, Sarah Vaughan, Edith Piaf, or Frank Sinatra. Even though the top 25 has been mostly good so far, the lack of those giants seems all kinds of wrong, especially considering that artistically limited bands like Smiths or Joy Division have multiple songs in the top 100.

Too bad not enough 70-80 year olds post on ILM. I agree with you that its ridiculous and that the poll has for the most part ignored the first half of the 20th century, but I think there's just a certain distance to that era that keeps the music from being very emotionally resonant with the population of people voting in this poll; and I think for the most part people went with music they were subjectively most connected to emotionally, rather than analytically picking "the most important songs." This was a "BEST" poll and not a "Most Important/Influential" so I think people largely went with what satisfies them subjectively and pre-50s stuff just doesn't seem to be it.

I did everything I could during nominations and with my own ballot to get pre-1960 music in the top 125, but it was largely a failed mission.

Any chance of getting the whole top ten over and done with now? I've got to go out in ten minutes.

2nd Kate Bush song, right? #11 is pretty wtf but whatev

top 10 gonna be wall to wall steely dan and fleetwood mac iirc, maybe a smattering of 'you set the scene' which hey I voted for

nice. an incredible 27 votes too. so much for running up that hill/cloudbusting vote-splitting

3rd kate song

'you set the scene' has been totally robbed if it doesn't crack the top 125.

Exactly how are The Smiths and Joy Division "artistically limited", Tuomas?

Compared to the artists I mentioned their stylistic and sonic range as well as skill level is considerably narrower. Sure, they might've been able to do "that one thing" that indie kids love, but IMO to be a giant you have to have a done a lot of things, and done them well.

Any chance of getting the whole top ten over and done with now? I've got to go out in ten minutes.

Nope, but you'll have it to come back to later.

Okay, if it does end up being Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac then you should all be very thankful I'm going out, as I would be swearing up and down this thread.

Still hoping for The Shaggs. Surprise #1, maybe?

And don't worry, JF, I *was* joking.

Yeah, I love The Smiths and Joy Division, but to claim they have much more than one trick would be dishonest.

Viceroy OTM!

xp It's not about tricks.

The earliest track on my ballot was 1954 (it hasn't placed) but I've no regrets about that - I voted for songs that resonate with me - I haven't broken it down by year/decade but I know there was a lot from the '80s/'90s. Picking the most important tracks didn't come into it (though that would've been an interesting exercise).

Too bad not enough 70-80 year olds post on ILM.

But a lot of ILXors are in their 20s or early 30s, so all of the 60s and 70s tunes in this poll are equally historical to them - they weren't alive, or at least not conscious, when they originally came out.

stravinsky in top 10 surprise package?

I was surprised when I realized nothing was nominated from the Dreaming. If I had been paying attention, I might have nominated Sat in Your Lap or Suspended in Gaffa.

Joy Div had 2 tricks, Smiths maybe 1 and a half. Let's keep it honest indie-haters.

Also Fleetwood Mac and Steely Dan would be fine by me!

Compared to the artists I mentioned their stylistic and sonic range as well as skill level is considerably narrower. Sure, they might've been able to do "that one thing" that indie kids love, but IMO to be a giant you have to have a done a lot of things, and done them well.

this is how I feel about Kate Bush.

I feel you kinda on Joy Division re: skill level, but the Smiths were excellent musicians.

My earliest track was '30s, I think. But I'd have to go and look them all up to be sure.

Picking the most important tracks didn't come into it (though that would've been an interesting exercise).

That's what I was getting at with my subjective/objective statement during nominations or voting (whenever it was). I WISH it would've played out more like an "influential" poll rather than a "pet favorites" poll.

To me it seems more like that rock fans make a clear break between the "rock era" and "pre-rock era", and they don't even bother trying the artists that belong to the latter. It's not like pre-1960s music is hard to find these days.

(several x-posts)

You can't ever make that happen Johnny, it's an inherent flaw of the system.

new order played bass, drums, guitar, synths and sang. all coltrane ever did was play a horn -- talk about limited

and a new day dawns. really liking this closing stretch - much more varied than i'd ever have expected. for instance, i'd never so much as heard of althea and donna, much less heard "uptown top ranking" (that i know of, though there is something vaguely familiar about it). GREAT SONG, really fantastic. listened to it a little while back and it's been bouncing around in my head ever since. funny thing is that it does at first sound exactly like the sort of forgettable, bog standard reggae jam that others upthread wrote it off as, but slowly develops this sly, loping charm. it sounds relaxed because all reggae sounds relaxed in a way, but underneath that it has all this bubbly enthusiasm and youthful swagger. and it's catchy as hell. i wouldn't take it over a bunch of canonical reggae classics that didn't make the list at all ("007/shanty town", "rivers of babylon", "steppin razor", "redemption songs", that kind of thing), but i can also see as how it might become one of my underdog favorites in the long run. maybe...

i gave "o superman" that #1 vote. maybe i'd change that in retrospect because it turns out that it hardly needed my overenthusiastic assistance, and it isn't my single favorite song of the 20th century, not by a long shot. i did very much want it to do well, though, and also to make a statement about its importance to me personally, as a song that opened a lot of doors when i was young. glad that so many other people love it, too.

was going on last night about how blue oyster cult might be my favorite rock band period (note important placement of "might"), so i love the fact that "don't fear the reaper" finished so high. as a fan both of the band and 70s rock, i'm beyond burned out on that song, would sooner listen to at least 20 others by the band, but i voted for it because i remembered how it sounded when i first heard it long ago, in th back of a volvo station wagon on the way to see "the bad news bears", how mysterious, seductive and terrifying, a visitation from a place i'd never imagined. i still think it's one of the most lovely and deathly songs ever to have been a top 40 hit during the AOR era, a perfect goth horror movie in sound long before anyone thought to call anything "goth". and there must be an english word that means "lovely and deathly" right? how could our language fail us here? whatever it is, i can't think of it.

and a big FUCK YES to this morning's big star, michael jackson and otis redding tunes. all very close to my heart and the sort of stuff i'm happy to see filling out the top 25, with apologies to all those who fought and died prior to the summer of love. i yam what i yam. voted for "heroes" too, but it pales next to the former 3.

To me it seems more like argument fans make a clear break between their "awesome taste" and other people's "pre-awesome taste", and they don't even bother not making sweeping assumptions about how other people choose to vote.

boring as those choices might be

But a lot of ILXors are in their 20s or early 30s, so all of the 60s and 70s tunes in this poll are equally historical to them.

Equally historical to pre-war music? That's just intellectually bankrupt... I mean, people have parents you know, a lot of us had boomer parents and mine certainly didn't play a lot of 30s and 40s jazz while I was growing up. I think the music your parents play has a lot to do with informing your musical sensibilities.

Exactly how are The Smiths and Joy Division "artistically limited", Tuomas?

Compared to the artists I mentioned their stylistic and sonic range as well as skill level is considerably narrower. Sure, they might've been able to do "that one thing" that indie kids love, but IMO to be a giant you have to have a done a lot of things, and done them well.

― Tuomas, Friday, December 3, 2010 7:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

OK so you mean limited as opposed to diverse. Anyway this a poll about tracks not artists. Note that I still agree with the general sentiment re: the smiths and joy division.

@Tuomas: The influence of 60s/70s music on 80s/90s/00s rock/indie/etc. is clear; jazz, especially pre-electric jazz is not in the same lineage and requires a different vocabulary to contextualise it.

But a lot of ILXors are in their 20s or early 30s, so all of the 60s and 70s tunes in this poll are equally historical to them - they weren't alive, or at least not conscious, when they originally came out.

but the songs were around, on the radio, on parents' stereos etc.

he's just pissed at the lack of sibelius

I wrote this last night, pertaining to the subject:

I was thinking about it a little while ago and concluded that, as much as we'd all like to represent for a lot of pre-1960 music, there's just SO MUCH of it (60 years' worth) and not everyone has had the time or will to go back and really familiarize themselves with enough of it for it to become instinctual to vote for. That's fair. Artists from the '60s and '70s are still in the public consciousness today, whether we're hearing them on the radio or reading their obits in the paper, or hearing covers of their songs by present-day artists. Pre-1960 music is generally relegated to radio stations that our grandparents listen to, isn't much talked about or regarded in day-to-day life, and really only captures our attention when used strategically in a film (like "Cheek to Cheek" was in The Green Mile, for example).

If a bunch 70 and 80 year olds were voting in this poll, I wouldn't expect to see a single Prince or Joy Division song make the cut, but a whole lot of Nat King Cole and Rosemary Clooney instead.

That's what I was getting at with my subjective/objective statement during nominations or voting (whenever it was). I WISH it would've played out more like an "influential" poll rather than a "pet favorites" poll.

I could well have put together an alternative ballot along those lines - it'd be quite a challenge I think.
The main difficulties would be weighing up a) important one-off songs vs. representative tracks from important artists and b) epochal songs from totally different genres.