a lot of these seem to lack point and are just leaks of internal documents to show what wikileaks can do
No doubt this will be official US response in a few weeks after "OMG COUNTLESS LIVES ARE AT STAKE!" has gotten enough media attention.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:10 (thirteen years ago) link
no doubt the wikileaks bro is some rapey looking motherfucker, sorry i mean, i don't give a shit what the official US response will be, im just trying to call it
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:12 (thirteen years ago) link
oh great this again
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:19 (thirteen years ago) link
yup, it's one more go-round for the fearless libertarians and their noble struggle to make public internal government documents
we're way ahead of you in the UK, where the govt itself is releasing detailed public sector budgets in order to discredit the public sector in the right-wing (is there any other kind?) media
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
uh oh, i've been called a libertarian, i'm super pissed
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:25 (thirteen years ago) link
hiyyyyek
― rouxymuzak (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:27 (thirteen years ago) link
Have you ever considered installing a trolling filter so that you don't have to make snide remarks every time someone writes something you don't like? You might find it freeing.
― Mordy, Sunday, 28 November 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
I think calling out the gov't on using the "this puts lives at risk" argument (however right they may be) is crucial, and we should never stop doing this so long as we are engaged in Endless War.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 28 November 2010 21:18 (thirteen years ago) link
huh? we shd call out the govt "however right they may be"?
a lot of this current info dump is only tangentially related to the "Endless War" or however you like to melodramatize it
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
well i agree we shouldn't deny ourselves that agency but i think what adam was getting at was the arbirariness with which the govt trots out that meaningless counter. which yeah, is something to be critical of
i'd kind of like to know how you think "endless war" is a 'melodramatic' term tho - when exactly do you see this ending? maybe "by 2014" i guess lol
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/39/l_d78e990a055c453d82f5ef951448c578.jpg
"some day this war's gonna end"
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
govt trots
Those old Marxism Today bunch get everywhere...
― specifically, the word talking (Ned Trifle II), Sunday, 28 November 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/index.htmlCurrently released so far... 219 / 251,287 ?
― specifically, the word talking (Ned Trifle II), Sunday, 28 November 2010 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link
I still don't understand what this leak is supposed to accomplish, other than "look what Wikileaks can do" (history mayne OTM). Isn't diplomacy the best way to avoid "Endless War" and to prevent future ones? How does compromising diplomatic trust in the US (and the countries it deals with on a regular basis) supposed to help that?
At the end of the day, I'm sure that the Saudi king -- the champion of human rights and free speech that he is -- will be the first to admit that carrying out diplomacy completely in the public domain will be the most effective way to bring peace to the Middle East.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't know what its moral purpose is meant to be anymore. It just seems like reckless posturing more than anything else, and whether the impact of revelation X is positive or negative in the long run isn't even relevant. It's like the Popbitch of geopolitics - juicy gossip dressed up as The Truth.
― The baby boomers have defined everything once and for all (Dorianlynskey), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:07 (thirteen years ago) link
"other than look what ___ can do" sounds a lot like certain countries' foreign policies.
the best way to prevent misdeeds and corruption is to bring records thereof to the public attention and hold the people involved accountable (lol ok let's not get carried away though). countries and corporations that don't want their misdeeds made public by wikileaks or other whistleblowers shouldn't commit misdeeds or do things they don't want made public (to paraphrase a much-beloved around here writer)
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
k3vin OTMFM
― StanM, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link
also i've no idea how diplomatic relations with the US will be adversely affected considering the US hasn't consented to the release of the cables and in fact has been strongly critical of it
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:26 (thirteen years ago) link
i think id have a much better relationship with my friends if they knew every single thing id ever said about them to other people. cant see any problem with that. at all.
― max, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:26 (thirteen years ago) link
"other than look what ___ can do" sounds a lot like certain countries' foreign policies
omg you totally went there
yeah sure, the us went into afghanistan just to show everyone how big its dick was
simple
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link
totally the point, great job xp
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
a lot of this stuff isn't 'corruption' or 'misdeeds', it's grown-ups talking
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
the state dept has x-opinion about putin? well surely it's everyone's business to know
truth to power eh mayne
― rouxymuzak (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:29 (thirteen years ago) link
Also, there's no context here.
― specifically, the word talking (Ned Trifle II), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:30 (thirteen years ago) link
This leak is akin to sending out a private email to your entire address book.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:31 (thirteen years ago) link
What's corrupt about Saudi Arabia and the US discussing how to deal with Iran's nuclear program? What's corrupt about the government trying to find out if the Chinese government is involved in global computer hacking? Yeah, let's "hold China accountable" -- I'm sure that thanks to this heroic leak, the Chinese government will be so embarrassed that they'll voluntarily stop with any cyber-chicanery they might be doing!
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:31 (thirteen years ago) link
I found today's revelations unspectacular (exception: first time in years I've come across a reference to Eritrea). But classifying millions of documents because of a fetish for secrecy will lead to an inordinate interest in the trivialities leaked today. Which is to say: I found last July's leaks a lot more interesting than today's.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link
max think of it as the irl equivalent of no meta on 77 - mad threads are getting moved
ok cracking myself up now, bbl
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:33 (thirteen years ago) link
I think it's fascinating to see what the supposedly good guys are doing behind the scenes, makes you wonder what's going on in the "rogue/evil" countries.
― StanM, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Killing guys like Assange?
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:43 (thirteen years ago) link
i.e. fulfilling Jonah Goldberg's fantasies?
it's funny we never find out, coz they're probably really lenient with truth-telling journalist types
xp
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:43 (thirteen years ago) link
I did find it interesting to learn how hard arab countries are pushing for strikes against Iran. I feel there's probably some value in the public being aware of this?
― sonderborg, Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Ho hum
emeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh admits covering up US military strikes on Al-Qaeda in Yemen by claiming they are carried out by Yemeni forces, according to US documents leaked by WikiLeaks.
― Two and a Half Muffins (Eazy), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:50 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah who knew saudi arabia had beef with iran, huh? major revelaish there.
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:51 (thirteen years ago) link
One thing I'll say is that these leaks appear to be a lot more entertaining than those boring war documents. Probably harder to justify leaking, though.
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr-wS5iBv0 (Princess TamTam), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:58 (thirteen years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ObiTM.jpg
― http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr-wS5iBv0 (Princess TamTam), Sunday, 28 November 2010 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link
just gotta love the post-ironic SS symbol on that seal...
― Ignore Me! (Viceroy), Sunday, 28 November 2010 23:39 (thirteen years ago) link
― https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipr-wS5iBv0 (Princess TamTam), Sunday, November 28, 2010 5:58 PM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
otm
― max, Sunday, 28 November 2010 23:49 (thirteen years ago) link
ha
― rouxymuzak (nakhchivan), Sunday, 28 November 2010 23:50 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm resolutely against the current wars. Right now, the leaks themselves simply mean another opportunity to criticize these wars. The content of the leaks and whether or not one condones them is more or less irrelevant to me at this moment. Attention has been shifted to US foreign policy and that's good enough for me.
― Telephoneface (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 28 November 2010 23:59 (thirteen years ago) link
the focus isn't on the wars, though, it's on whatever's juicy. i don't have a big objection to the US being involved in yemen -- obviously torture, avoidable civilian casualties, etc., those i'm against -- but even if i did, i don't see what the leaks do to clinch an argument.
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Monday, 29 November 2010 00:12 (thirteen years ago) link
yr kinda conflicted between deprecation and indignation -- either the information is crap/redundant or dangerous but not conceivably both
― rouxymuzak (nakhchivan), Monday, 29 November 2010 00:21 (thirteen years ago) link
some of it is redundant, some is possibly a bit damaging
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Monday, 29 November 2010 00:22 (thirteen years ago) link
something can useless for making a case against a war (tho Alfred's point is that he doesn't care about making a care against it, just creating awareness -- presumably he believes the case against it has already been made sufficiently and lacks exposure, and maybe he's right) and still be dangerous. for instance a totally meaningless piece of information can blow up into a scandal (a sex scandal is a good example of dangerous useless information) or a person's identity could be exposed and endanger them despite containing meaningless information.
― Mordy, Monday, 29 November 2010 00:26 (thirteen years ago) link
guardian going hot and heavy with this lot anyway
― rouxymuzak (nakhchivan), Monday, 29 November 2010 00:27 (thirteen years ago) link
Timothy Garton Ash: A banquet of secrets
― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Sunday, November 28, 2010 7:12 PM (14 minutes ago)
they're informative, dude. they don't have to be one or the other
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Monday, 29 November 2010 00:27 (thirteen years ago) link
The info published in today's NYT is the kind of color I love to read about in biographies but looks, well, harmless to those of us not in the national security establishment.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 29 November 2010 00:28 (thirteen years ago) link