Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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I mean that I would expect a team to finish 4th with a much higher ratio than is currently the case, so I expect someone to pull away with great form more than I expect other teams to drop off through poor form.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:28 (twenty years ago) link

Isn't that like thinking that if you've tossed five tails in a row you're more likely to get heads the next time?

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:31 (twenty years ago) link

I guess if by 'great form' you just mean 'form more like previous seasons'' then it isn't.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:32 (twenty years ago) link

N., the football commentator, is... plausible?

― the cupfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:44 (twenty years ago) link

I'd love it if they had one pedantic middle-class know nothing amongst the studio pundits to quibble over faulty logic and poor grammar.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:46 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know what you're trying to say.

Are you positing yourself, or me, as the middle-class know-nothing?

I am middle-class but re. football I know something more than nothing.

― the cupfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link

It's me, not you. I can't understand how you could have thought otherwise.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:49 (twenty years ago) link

I see. re. faulty logic. You were indeed attacking that.

― the byrdfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago) link

It is a bit like that, N, yes - but not quite, as those sorts of figures do provide a pretty decent guide generally, though obviously not always.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:19 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Coming up:

Arsenal vs Liverpool

Everton vs Tottenham

TWO BIG MATCHES

CAN HOULLIER'S MEN STOP GUNNERS IN THEIR... TRACKSUITS?

― the roonfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:07 (twenty years ago) link

The Reds, UEFA Cup exit aside, are definitely in some mean form right now - four Premiership games without conceding a goal, the most convincing they've looked all season. But *then* you remember who their last four games were against and the 89 minutes of toil vs Wolves and maybe it ain't all that. I expect Arsenal to recover their winning touch. EFC-Spurs I anticipate being the usual, strangely dissatisfying score draw.

Can someone tell me what's happened to the Southampton-Newcastle fixture? Bobby R made some reference to that now being NUFC's last game of the season, but surely there can't be games beyond 15/5?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:24 (twenty years ago) link

Pool aren't really playing that well, one good game, they had European failure in between those 4 games aswell.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

I think you mean Sir Bobby R

― the cupfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

Pool aren't really playing that well, one good game, they had European failure in between those 4 games aswell.

Yes, but even the defeat vs Marseille was a reasonable performance until the bizarro red-card-penalty incident. Better than the home leg, I thought. I thought the 3-0 vs Pompey and 4-0 vs Blackburn were universally acclaimed in a way few winning L'pool performances have been this season. Or maybe that was just the media pendulum swinging back from the Houll Crisis position.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:33 (twenty years ago) link

Owen has hit form just in time for a late charge at the end of the season though (and hopefully Euro2004 as well)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:35 (twenty years ago) link

It's good to see Jonesy talking Liverpool up and Ronan talking them down, both from opposing pessimistic positions.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link

haha I have lost all faith.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link

I have never seen MJ talk them up quite so much, on reflection.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link

Incidentally Pinefox even I don't believe that Spurs Everton is a big game - it is utterly inconsequential. Especially when bearing in mind that both teams typically finish seasons with the same confidence, verve and steadyness as, well... Arsenal. Arf.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:42 (twenty years ago) link

Is there an argument that, for all the silverware GH has brought into Anfield, Roy Evans (remember him?) actually got closer to that elusive Premiership title? If David James hadn't such a nightmare on Easter Monday '97 vs Man Utd, if Liverpool hadn't faltered at Coventry three days after that Game Of The Decade vs KK's Newcastle in '96...they'd have been right in the hunt at the death. Houllier's Liverpool always seem totally out of the race by about February.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:43 (twenty years ago) link

sigh

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

GH's are wrong in the death at the hunt.

― the liverfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

Evans had us playing good football too, we were 5 points clear at Christmas that year and looked fantastic.

Maybe the long spell of patience should have been kept for Roy, I don't know. GH has to go this summer anyway, regardless of the position the team finishes in.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:46 (twenty years ago) link

My dearest scouse-related dream is for the Liverpool board to appoint another manager to be Joint Manager alongside Gerard. He wouldn't be in a position to complain, of course, because it's a completely reasonable thing to do, non?

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

My dearest scouse-related dream is for the Liverpool board to appoint another manager to be Joint Manager alongside Gerard.

Oh, my heart skips at the notion of "joint manager".

Liverpool under Evanshoullier, Aug-Nov 1998:

P13, W4, D4, L5 - 12th in Prem, out of league cup at home to Spurs.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:54 (twenty years ago) link

Obviously any dip in Liverpool's form would be an entirely unwelcome side-effect of my plan.

― Tim (Tim), Thursday, 8 April 2004 13:55 (twenty years ago) link

I am almost ashamed - but no, really just sad - to have to say that I cannot clearly remember that League Cup victory.

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:02 (twenty years ago) link

Houllier's grebt season:

UEFA - won against 9-men Spanish team through own goal in extra-time; Spanish team have never been heard of since.

FA Cup - should have been about 4-0 down then two goals with two attacks in the last 10 mins

League Cup - Beat a 1st Division side on penalties

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:03 (twenty years ago) link

but in all of them, won it when others didn't.

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:06 (twenty years ago) link

Also finishing SECOND IN THE PREMIERSHIP the following season...

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

but in all of them, won it when others didn't.

A fitting epitaph for Gerard.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

... can anyone else clearly remember that League Cup victory?

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago) link

Haha I do... JOHN SCALES scored! Tottenham went onto win the cup.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:21 (twenty years ago) link

The one where we beat Bolton? It's hazy for me I must admit

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:21 (twenty years ago) link

I can't remember it but the bare details are:

Tuesday, Nov 10, 1998

Liverpool 1 (Owen 80)
Tottenham Hotspur 3 (Iversen 2, Scales 19, Nielsen 61)

Arsenal lost 5-0 at home to Chelsea the following night!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:22 (twenty years ago) link

Oh christ I remember that, appalling, I watched Chelsea beat what was just about an Arsenal reserve team the next night in a really nice pub in Edinburgh, where I got very drunk on 80bob

― chris (chris), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:24 (twenty years ago) link

Everton went out the same night on penalties at home to Sunderland, John Collins scoring a rare goal for us in a 1-1 draw. John Collins - what promise, what enormous wages, what a waste.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:27 (twenty years ago) link

Jayzus, yes, I remember being 0-3 up, and probably still fearing the Liverpool comeback.

I suppose that 11.98, Owen was still England's brightest young star?

Uh-oh -- he still is?

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:38 (twenty years ago) link

Good old Tottenham pessimism. I remember against Chelsea in the Worthington Cup a few years back - it was only when the fourth goal went in that it occurred to me that we might not lose.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:44 (twenty years ago) link

Me too!

That was only... 2 years ago?

― the spurfox, Thursday, 8 April 2004 14:50 (twenty years ago) link

In the pub for Dave Boyle's birthday FAP tonight I saw the TV (no sound) flash up 'HEADLINES' then there was a shot of Houllier giving a press conference. I immediately thought that maybe he has resigned - and then they cut to a shot of Keegan, and I was immensely amused at the idea of him as a replacement. Turned out their top headline was about Liverpool hoping to beat Arsenal. Quiet news day, I assume.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 8 April 2004 22:41 (twenty years ago) link

Everton can't do F'all because they were a G14ish team that fell by the wayside at exactly the wrong moment. Liverpool had just enough kudos to be included in the G14/perception of being a big European club. I'm glad that on the other thread (EC CUP) everyone takes the anti-G14 attitude they do because remember R Madrid did not win the European Cup between the 1960's & 1998? - Who the fuck were they?
It is about money & because of that I think all our goodwill to Ranieri will disappear next season

― drum (drum), Thursday, 8 April 2004 23:49 (twenty years ago) link

Owen's put them ahead again! I'm off the pub.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:30 (twenty years ago) link

All gone to shit. Arsenal have scored twice and the pub said it wasn't on Sky. What sodding channel is it on?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:50 (twenty years ago) link

It's not on anywhere as far as I know.

Pay per view maybe? It might be on in a pub here except all pubs and off licences are closed today.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:53 (twenty years ago) link

didn't you ask 'em N.

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 9 April 2004 11:55 (twenty years ago) link

I asked them and they said it was on some weird channel they didn't have. I am reduced to comparing web commentaries (left my radio walkman at home for the first time in months and I can't use the plug in one here cause our office electrical weirdness blocks out all AM reception). Soccernet's weird 'gamecast' thing attempts to show what's happening on the field but I can't make head nor tail of it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:01 (twenty years ago) link

tail?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:02 (twenty years ago) link

As ever, eurosport.com's commentary is the most entertaining, but not the most up to date.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:02 (twenty years ago) link

Can you pick up 5Live in Dublin? I can't remember. Or does Irish radio carry it?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 9 April 2004 12:03 (twenty years ago) link

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