Kanye West - Dark Twisted Fantasy

dayo's right though

"the site hasnt been like this in years," fine, but that doesn't mean public perception of the site has changed along with the site

hi deej! yeah, it makes sense that it would be celebrated at the house of fork, but no more so than a bunch of other albums that didn't score quite as high. plus given its bizarre inconsistencies and tendency to walk around on its own face, it's hardly the kind of record that you'd expect to see praised to the rafters in all corners.

i mean. i think deej is right, in that this hits a lot of rock-critic sweet spots. it's also a pretty watershed record, and if you were going to give a 10.0 to something in terms of narrative and cultural moment, this would be it.

that it also coincides with p4k's continual growth from 2002-era indie bedroom review site to major criticism game player is just a bonus. and yeah, the general view of p4k outside of our inside baseball circles is still indielolz obscurantism, but that doesn't mean their love of Kanye etc. is being contrarian - scott et al. have made a point of pushing outwards for four or five years now. it's not totally generalist, but they were giving 8.1's to Justin back in 2006...you know?

also this is the list of headlines on p4k's site right now

Be Part of Thom Yorke's Art Project 9:40 a.m.
Watch: Gorillaz Cover the xx 10:15 a.m.
New Cut Copy: "Take Me Over" 3:00 p.m.
M83 Talks "Very, Very, Very Epic" New LP 2:05 p.m.
Robyn Announces North American Tour 12:00 p.m.
Wilco Coffee Is a Real Thing 11:05 a.m.
Listen: Atlas Sound Covers Bob Dylan, Kurt Vile 11:30 a.m.
Pictureplane and Teengirl Fantasy Plot Tour 4:00 p.m.
James Blake Announces Debut Album 4:30 p.m.

lol

lol!

Wilco Coffee Is a Real Thing

try the espresso roast.

but that doesn't mean their love of Kanye etc. is being contrarian - scott et al. have made a point of pushing outwards for four or five years now. it's not totally generalist, but they were giving 8.1's to Justin back in 2006...you know?

I don't doubt their love of Kanye but I do doubt whether their love was the only reason behind the 10.0

surprised that M83 is going for the third "very" this time around tbh

it makes sense that it would be celebrated at the house of fork, but no more so than a bunch of other albums that didn't score quite as high

except for the fact that kanye is kanye etc. etc. Big Boi's album is as good if not better than this, but it wasn't a cultural moment...no big singles, no feeling of 'watershed'-ness.

like...would i have thrown The xx a 10? maybe. But the "idea" of a 10 is something IMPORTANT - and as rockist as that is, it's still something that rings true with people. a 10 should be a statement; a 10 should have ambition; a 10 should say something about the moment we live in; etc. is that bullshit? sure, but it's still something that probably comes into play.

and like...Joanna Newsom and Animal Collective might be a big deal in P4K land, but Animal Collective are the opposite of ambitious or showy. LCD might fit into that category, but This Is Happening was coming off of Sound of Silver, and would have needed to be demonstrably BETTER. Ditto Joanna and HOOM - I really love HOOM, more than most, but Ys is her big *statement* thus far. Jay-Z is asleep post-retirement. P4K has never been huge on R&B and if Erykah's Part 1 didn't break 8, Part 2 wasn't going to come anywhere near a 10. What else?

I mean. There are many many good reasons to give it a 10 without it being conspiracy-driven or contrarian. It just sort of makes sense given where Ye is these days and where p4k is these days. Anyway, all of this talking about p4k is silly. The story isn't about the grade - there's enough to actually discuss here without inside baseball.

big boi's record really isnt as 'good' as this, if u stick to the 'set expectations -> meets expectations' game. this record is way way more unique/interesting at some level. idk i dont really find either one particularly engaging, and ill probably still rock that song w/ too short & george clinton 5 years from now, more often than i play this. but this record obv feels like a bigger deal

can i just make a subtle point about the whole late registration/omg it's jon brion! how artsy! narrative?

anyway, FUCK JON BRION. FUCK HIM. FUCK HIM. FUCK HIM.

miri ben-ari >>>> jon brion

mike fuckin dean yall >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jon brion

some great posts AiM

but there's no way this thread would have 500+ new answers if it wasn't for the p4k 10

yeah -- lots of great posts. But I don't know what we're discussing anymore -- something about Thom Yorke and coffee.

can i just make a subtle point about the whole late registration/omg it's jon brion! how artsy! narrative?

are you responding to 2005 or?

something about Thom Yorke and coffee.

― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:28 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark

just skip over the markers & daniel esq posts

kanye west graduation

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (553 of them)

what a disaster for markers and Daniel, Esq!!!

See, Big Boi's album is ambitious in the way I like: trim yet every song looking at its given subject from an unexpected, skewed musical and lyrical pov. It's exhausting in a good way -- I want to play it again as soon as it's over.

xps: someone mentioned that narrative and it bears heavy on my mind.

there is nothing ambitious about big boi's album

otm. big boi album is less than the sum of its parts and some of the parts aren't even all that

^^ 2+2 = 5

i mean, maybe it would feel more like that if those songs came out back when they were actually recorded. but it sounds like ... i dunno. a collection of tracks recorded over the past four years. some v good, some ehh

It just sort of makes sense given where Ye is these days and where p4k is these days.

this is otm

also carles is otm

let me flip the script on u all-- the 10.0 is pitchforks "statement score"

I don't even get what's that ambitious about MDTF itself - I get that the marketing, the good fridays, the multiple cover arts, the huge guest lists are ambitious etc., but what is 'musically ambitious' about this album?

lol at calling sir luscious leftfoot ambitious when it's by the same guy that made aquemini and stankonia

hell, even idlewild was more ambitious

I think that's what a lot of people have been arguing already itt, max

yeah i didnt read the thread

andy k's review is great

I don't even get what's that ambitious about MDTF itself - I get that the marketing, the good fridays, the multiple cover arts, the huge guest lists are ambitious etc., but what is 'musically ambitious' about this album?

― ＿|￣|○|￣|○|￣|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://www.allmusic.com/album/my-beautiful-dark-twisted-fantasy-r2055009/review

agree about big boi, it's just a straight-up good album, and i can't deny that alex has a point about ambition/"importance"/etc.

hey max:

can we keep the number of ppl on ilx that post as fake carles to under 2

― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 3:22 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

Andy's one of my favorite R&B/hip-hop critics, but I don't care for sentences like "Whether loved or loathed, fully enjoyed or merely admired, this album should be regarded as a deeply fascinating accomplishment." I mean -- "No."

Nothing exemplifies its contrasting elements and maniacal extravagance as much as “All of the Lights.” Rattling, raw, synthetic toms are embellished with brass, woodwinds, and strings. It’s a celebration of fame (“Fast cars, shooting stars”) and a lament of its consequences (“Restraining order/Can’t see my daughter”). Its making involved 42 people, including not one but two French horn players and over a dozen high-profile vocalists, only some of which are perceptible.

so Kanye is the broken social scene of rap

I get that the recording process was ambitious, but it doesn't sound ambitious, is all I'm sayin

deej is right about big boi -- i think that you have to love it in spite of its staleness

im not posting as fake carles i am just saying, real carles is otm

i am posting as fake jhøshea

so Kanye is the broken social scene of rap

― ＿|￣|○|￣|○|￣|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:37 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so ... do u or do u not get why this wd be a 'pfork album'??

the big boi album is like "break glass in case of there being no critically acclaimed southern rap album"

this album sounds prety ambitious dude

the polyphonic kanyree

igi deej

I get that the recording process was ambitious, but it doesn't sound ambitious, is all I'm sayin

― ＿|￣|○|￣|○|￣|○ (dayo), Monday, November 22, 2010 10:37 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dunno, rap music w/ huge instrumental suites & written as an exploration of the self & celebrity & ego & etc etc it all strikes me as rather unambiguously ambitious

whether or not u think that is a 'good thing' is up to you

i think this record is, at the v least, pretty fascinating, if not in a way that i find to be very replayable

AMG review is excellent and way more efficient than that endless p4k tract (which come to think about it, fits the album perfectly)

the big boi album is like "break glass in case of there being no critically acclaimed southern rap album"

― J0rdan S., Monday, November 22, 2010 10:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol. 1 for the sticker

I've been arguing that p4k had to give this a 10.0 from the beginning, fwiw

i dunno, rap music w/ huge instrumental suites & written as an exploration of the self & celebrity & ego & etc etc it all strikes me as rather unambiguously ambitious

whether or not u think that is a 'good thing' is up to you

yes