not from last night.
capello needs to start picking players on their last league game and nothing more. that's only as good as you are anyway iirc
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 20:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Can't tell what's a challop and what isn't any more.
― Tommy Duckworth (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:08 (thirteen years ago) link
pretty sure capello's squad was actually a challop.
downing should have started left side for england, based on nothing but his performance against utd. i'm not really invested in chasing the rest of it tbh.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:12 (thirteen years ago) link
Sadly, I felt last night more or less vindicated Capello's sticking with the old guard in the summer.
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
Downing is a better option than most of the other England left midfielders on any given, I think. The rest of it doesn't bear much chasing tbh.
― Tommy Duckworth (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
last night vindicated jack wilshere
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:15 (thirteen years ago) link
I am sorry to say
also it vindicated paul scholes
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
nothing retroactively vindicates abject failure. if you don't bring form to the world cup then you've bottled it.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Didn't watch the game cos fuck a friendly, also we were out, but that was a grab-bag team and I don't think you could draw many long-term conclusions from any performance it made.
― Tommy Duckworth (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
drawing conclusions from him picking a grab-bag team. not much else to take from t, really, as i said.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I saw the first 15 minutes then fucked off to cricket training, saw enough tho :D
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
You don't get the feeling that there is a plan any more, tbh.
― Tommy Duckworth (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Maybe wheels are turning under the surface but after all the soul-searching and the convincing critiques of English football during the World Cup, the FA looks ever so much like it's masterplan is: do fuck all about the infrastructure but appoint an English guy next go round.
― Tommy Duckworth (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
really.
he didn't have a stream of players ready and waiting to go?
it's a bit of a kneejerk, but genuinely- what do these guys do all day.
i'm neither english nor a football manager, but i could fill napkins with possible 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice X's, up-and-coming give em a game in the cup XI's, left footed XI's, sex scandal XI's, you name it XI's.
nobody picks teams with any gusto anymore, all managers act like it's a nuisance. it's sad.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:25 (thirteen years ago) link
I honestly would love to know how Capello fills his days
― Ismael Klata, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
This is England. This is their thing.For as long as I've followed football, England have always been technically inferior, tactically inept and, seemingly, mentally fragile under the pressure of playing competent teams. Their entire 'gameplan' has always been based around a desperate, straw-clutching hope that one of their handful (being generous) of players that isn't utterly embarrassed by the ball will somehow pull a rabbit out of his arse and compensate for the pitiful inadequacy of the rest of the team. And thus we - as supporters, fans, bemused observers - end up pinning all our expectations on one poor sod to carry the country to glory (or not); casting him in the role of ephemeral demigod or abject scapegoat as and when results suit. Aside from one fleeting summer under Terry Venables and the odd game under Hoddle (or perhaps karma should get the credit), I honestly don't recall England ever playing like a team. Not in the last 20 years anyway. They've always been about over-rated individuals dragging along mediocre-to-abysmal individuals - all within a structure of tactical chaos, indiscipline and self-importance.
For as long as I've followed football, England have always been technically inferior, tactically inept and, seemingly, mentally fragile under the pressure of playing competent teams. Their entire 'gameplan' has always been based around a desperate, straw-clutching hope that one of their handful (being generous) of players that isn't utterly embarrassed by the ball will somehow pull a rabbit out of his arse and compensate for the pitiful inadequacy of the rest of the team. And thus we - as supporters, fans, bemused observers - end up pinning all our expectations on one poor sod to carry the country to glory (or not); casting him in the role of ephemeral demigod or abject scapegoat as and when results suit.
Aside from one fleeting summer under Terry Venables and the odd game under Hoddle (or perhaps karma should get the credit), I honestly don't recall England ever playing like a team. Not in the last 20 years anyway. They've always been about over-rated individuals dragging along mediocre-to-abysmal individuals - all within a structure of tactical chaos, indiscipline and self-importance.
NV will no doubt agree with this F365 mailbox dude. I know Capello's not got much to work with, but that's no excuse not to work with what he has got- plenty of good young players available, starts with gerrard and barry- not only two of the guys that stank the place out in the summer, but two guys that, let's be honest, have been pretty shit since then too. a few friendlies that feature all-new lineups or at least all u-28 players might send a good message- england b teams, but without the sting that the 'b' suggests
good to see lescott in there tho. dont care what moyes or mancini think, that guy is international class
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
with the likes of Johnson, Wilshere, Gibbs, Rodwell, Carroll and Walcott (sometimes) looking like good players, I think we'll be okay in 3-4 years' time. We'll just have to put up with Barry/Lampard/Ferdinand/Terry/Gerrard for a couple more years.
Mark, Windsor
mark, windsor, is completely fucking deluded. england have nobody coming up to replace the talents of gerrard, ferdinand or lampard.
i have no idea how that tallies with my other statements in this thread, i'm just saying what i'm FEELING
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
gerrard is a fucking hex over this england team, no matter how well he plays, and we will be grateful to be rid of him
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link
make mark e smith national manager imo
i agree with you about gerrard, but then i think the same about lampard & rooney.
given that ferdinand's a crock, what's left? and any stage of development?
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:55 (thirteen years ago) link
at any stage, sry
phil jones iirc
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:56 (thirteen years ago) link
also ciaran clark
not forgetting titus bramble
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link
keep away from ciaran clark ty
you'll be after the uncapped coleman next
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link
lampard has not been used well by england and our other midfielders have not been up to his standard. fact
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
also why are all the cunts we need not english
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Lennon Huddlestone Wilshere Young Agbonlahor Walcott
add carroll as the focal point here, hell- add k davies temporarily if you like. add in a johnson, henderson and rodwell too, if they're your thing. maybe cattermole, and maybe parker temporarily.
there's a lot going on that isn't a jaded and frankly not-too-bothered g barry right now
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
have you u-turned on lampard in recent times?
got mad hopes for michael mancienne. noodle vague plz come and laugh at me
not lennon, lennon has not got enough. we don't need wingers, we need adaptive forwards, like wilshere arguably but more like players who aren't english
have always liked lampard
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
as a footballer
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:02 (thirteen years ago) link
tell you what, brian, btw
if michael carrick is yr nation's idea of a 'thoughtful passing midfielder' then
a) you can't tell rabbit in headlights from 'thoughtful'
b) you have no business thinking of seedings for international tournaments.
glad on your behalf capello's stopped picking him
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:02 (thirteen years ago) link
lennon back to form now, yeah, but in the season leading to the WC he was like aaron lennon with a masters in decision making and courage.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:03 (thirteen years ago) link
mad hopes for mancienne- dash 'em now imo. if years of football manager have taught me anything (debatable) it's that a defender/defensive midfielder with stats above 12 for 'flair/dribble' are always unmitigated disasters
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:05 (thirteen years ago) link
huddlestone hargreaves (still believe!) wilshere henderson (used properly) walcott carroll
is a possibility, ideally we'd have a good long-term replacement for hargreaves (rodwell? cattermole? lol) and who knows how good henri lansbury will be (i do, answer is 'fairly')
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:07 (thirteen years ago) link
the henderson that played vs chelsea the other day is not the one employed to sit back and watch france pass the other day
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
wait double use of 'the other day' curse it all
hargreaves will never again play a run of games that merits inclusion in an england squad. henderson is still too early days to make any kind of call on, kind of like rodwell imo, but rodwell looks a very good prospect.
walcott- don't think you can include walcott but pooh-pooh lennon. they're the same player, but one runs at the goal while tripping himself up and the other runs at the corner flag. neither good enough for england, in an ideal world, because without pace they'd actually be very shit at football. go with ashley young.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:12 (thirteen years ago) link
i got hope for walcott's touch and movement, lennon is just a wing-merchant who has been worked out largely
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:13 (thirteen years ago) link
lennon's neural pathways are deep and intimidating structures, but when hes jolted out of them (as was the case for a large part of last year) he's better than walcott will ever be, i think. i don't think walcott's good enough at football to be successfully included in a team that likes to keep and pass the ball. i cant understand how he's still at arsenal, tbh.
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
Lennon has suffered a bit from a) his injury last season and b) the emergence of Gareth Bale at the same time. Spurs players used to pass to him at every opportunity, now he barely gets the ball because it's always going out left.
Nothing about any of these future England XIs being compiled convinced me that they will have enough to compete internationally for the next ten years or so.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:21 (thirteen years ago) link
ok well i've previously included them both in mooted england teams
fast players with great touch and adaptability would be nice. lennon needs to move to a club where 4-4-2 is not practiced
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:22 (thirteen years ago) link
lennon needs to move to liverpool
haaaa
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
It's not practised at Spurs very often any more, but Lennon strikes me as a straight 4-4-2 kinda winger, not the kind that can adapt very well to being the right side of a front three. It's more likely to be Adam Johnson playing there in future.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
oh god yeah I forgot him, he has ability even if his movement might not be quite there
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Also he's left-footed but whatever.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link
that isn't so much an issue, viz. every decent european side currently playing
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link
he's a left footer, but his main strength is shooting/crossing with inswing on that foot, so right side it is
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:28 (thirteen years ago) link
lampard can play in the middle for england until the next euros imo, he's more needed than everyone thinks, but he needs good players around him - lampard, wilshere, huddlestone, hargreaves/rodwell/cattermole axis of short-passing splendour
― acoleuthic, Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:32 (thirteen years ago) link
dunno that lampard's short passing game is anything like as good as his long cunting game tbph
― Goths in Home & Away in my lifetime (darraghmac), Thursday, 18 November 2010 22:33 (thirteen years ago) link