Tragic Football Stories - Let us Kick Around the misshapen Jabulani that is English football right here

wot no ilxors anywhere discussing last nights, ahem, performance?

Think they're all over on the international football friendlies thread which hasn't been moved over here yet (hi dere plz a real mod who can move stuff?)

hi dere no longer a real mod ;_;

there isn't actually anything to discuss btw

not from last night.

capello needs to start picking players on their last league game and nothing more. that's only as good as you are anyway iirc

Can't tell what's a challop and what isn't any more.

pretty sure capello's squad was actually a challop.

downing should have started left side for england, based on nothing but his performance against utd. i'm not really invested in chasing the rest of it tbh.

Sadly, I felt last night more or less vindicated Capello's sticking with the old guard in the summer.

Downing is a better option than most of the other England left midfielders on any given, I think. The rest of it doesn't bear much chasing tbh.

last night vindicated jack wilshere

I am sorry to say

also it vindicated paul scholes

nothing retroactively vindicates abject failure. if you don't bring form to the world cup then you've bottled it.

Didn't watch the game cos fuck a friendly, also we were out, but that was a grab-bag team and I don't think you could draw many long-term conclusions from any performance it made.

drawing conclusions from him picking a grab-bag team. not much else to take from t, really, as i said.

I saw the first 15 minutes then fucked off to cricket training, saw enough tho :D

You don't get the feeling that there is a plan any more, tbh.

Maybe wheels are turning under the surface but after all the soul-searching and the convincing critiques of English football during the World Cup, the FA looks ever so much like it's masterplan is: do fuck all about the infrastructure but appoint an English guy next go round.

really.

he didn't have a stream of players ready and waiting to go?

it's a bit of a kneejerk, but genuinely- what do these guys do all day.

i'm neither english nor a football manager, but i could fill napkins with possible 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice X's, up-and-coming give em a game in the cup XI's, left footed XI's, sex scandal XI's, you name it XI's.

nobody picks teams with any gusto anymore, all managers act like it's a nuisance. it's sad.

I honestly would love to know how Capello fills his days

This is England. This is their thing.

For as long as I've followed football, England have always been technically inferior, tactically inept and, seemingly, mentally fragile under the pressure of playing competent teams. Their entire 'gameplan' has always been based around a desperate, straw-clutching hope that one of their handful (being generous) of players that isn't utterly embarrassed by the ball will somehow pull a rabbit out of his arse and compensate for the pitiful inadequacy of the rest of the team. And thus we - as supporters, fans, bemused observers - end up pinning all our expectations on one poor sod to carry the country to glory (or not); casting him in the role of ephemeral demigod or abject scapegoat as and when results suit.

Aside from one fleeting summer under Terry Venables and the odd game under Hoddle (or perhaps karma should get the credit), I honestly don't recall England ever playing like a team. Not in the last 20 years anyway. They've always been about over-rated individuals dragging along mediocre-to-abysmal individuals - all within a structure of tactical chaos, indiscipline and self-importance.

NV will no doubt agree with this F365 mailbox dude. I know Capello's not got much to work with, but that's no excuse not to work with what he has got- plenty of good young players available, starts with gerrard and barry- not only two of the guys that stank the place out in the summer, but two guys that, let's be honest, have been pretty shit since then too. a few friendlies that feature all-new lineups or at least all u-28 players might send a good message- england b teams, but without the sting that the 'b' suggests

good to see lescott in there tho. dont care what moyes or mancini think, that guy is international class

with the likes of Johnson, Wilshere, Gibbs, Rodwell, Carroll and Walcott (sometimes) looking like good players, I think we'll be okay in 3-4 years' time. We'll just have to put up with Barry/Lampard/Ferdinand/Terry/Gerrard for a couple more years.

Mark, Windsor

mark, windsor, is completely fucking deluded. england have nobody coming up to replace the talents of gerrard, ferdinand or lampard.

i have no idea how that tallies with my other statements in this thread, i'm just saying what i'm FEELING

gerrard is a fucking hex over this england team, no matter how well he plays, and we will be grateful to be rid of him

make mark e smith national manager imo

i agree with you about gerrard, but then i think the same about lampard & rooney.

given that ferdinand's a crock, what's left? and any stage of development?

at any stage, sry

phil jones iirc

also ciaran clark

not forgetting titus bramble

keep away from ciaran clark ty

you'll be after the uncapped coleman next

lampard has not been used well by england and our other midfielders have not been up to his standard. fact

also why are all the cunts we need not english

Lennon Huddlestone Wilshere Young Agbonlahor Walcott

add carroll as the focal point here, hell- add k davies temporarily if you like. add in a johnson, henderson and rodwell too, if they're your thing. maybe cattermole, and maybe parker temporarily.

there's a lot going on that isn't a jaded and frankly not-too-bothered g barry right now

have you u-turned on lampard in recent times?

got mad hopes for michael mancienne. noodle vague plz come and laugh at me

not lennon, lennon has not got enough. we don't need wingers, we need adaptive forwards, like wilshere arguably but more like players who aren't english

have always liked lampard

as a footballer

tell you what, brian, btw

if michael carrick is yr nation's idea of a 'thoughtful passing midfielder' then

a) you can't tell rabbit in headlights from 'thoughtful'

b) you have no business thinking of seedings for international tournaments.

glad on your behalf capello's stopped picking him

lennon back to form now, yeah, but in the season leading to the WC he was like aaron lennon with a masters in decision making and courage.

mad hopes for mancienne- dash 'em now imo. if years of football manager have taught me anything (debatable) it's that a defender/defensive midfielder with stats above 12 for 'flair/dribble' are always unmitigated disasters

huddlestone hargreaves (still believe!) wilshere henderson (used properly) walcott carroll

is a possibility, ideally we'd have a good long-term replacement for hargreaves (rodwell? cattermole? lol) and who knows how good henri lansbury will be (i do, answer is 'fairly')

the henderson that played vs chelsea the other day is not the one employed to sit back and watch france pass the other day

wait double use of 'the other day' curse it all

hargreaves will never again play a run of games that merits inclusion in an england squad. henderson is still too early days to make any kind of call on, kind of like rodwell imo, but rodwell looks a very good prospect.

walcott- don't think you can include walcott but pooh-pooh lennon. they're the same player, but one runs at the goal while tripping himself up and the other runs at the corner flag. neither good enough for england, in an ideal world, because without pace they'd actually be very shit at football. go with ashley young.

i got hope for walcott's touch and movement, lennon is just a wing-merchant who has been worked out largely

lennon's neural pathways are deep and intimidating structures, but when hes jolted out of them (as was the case for a large part of last year) he's better than walcott will ever be, i think. i don't think walcott's good enough at football to be successfully included in a team that likes to keep and pass the ball. i cant understand how he's still at arsenal, tbh.

Lennon has suffered a bit from a) his injury last season and b) the emergence of Gareth Bale at the same time. Spurs players used to pass to him at every opportunity, now he barely gets the ball because it's always going out left.

Nothing about any of these future England XIs being compiled convinced me that they will have enough to compete internationally for the next ten years or so.

ok well i've previously included them both in mooted england teams

fast players with great touch and adaptability would be nice. lennon needs to move to a club where 4-4-2 is not practiced

lennon needs to move to liverpool

haaaa

It's not practised at Spurs very often any more, but Lennon strikes me as a straight 4-4-2 kinda winger, not the kind that can adapt very well to being the right side of a front three. It's more likely to be Adam Johnson playing there in future.

oh god yeah I forgot him, he has ability even if his movement might not be quite there

Also he's left-footed but whatever.