I always like when villains play the "But we're buddies!" card, in such a way that you know they would KILL the hero if conditions were reversed (cf Doctor & Master in The Sea Devils).
― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:19 (seventeen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 4 September 2006 14:03 (seventeen years ago) link
I like Luthor as a villain... he has a real air of nastiness to him, particularly when he is done as the billionaire plutocrat villain. John Byrne did some great stuff with him.
It occurs to me - the Earth 2 Luthor must be way sharper than the evil one we are used to, because the Crime Syndicate would just kill him if they ever got the chance, something evil Luthor does not have to worry about.
― DV (dirtyvicar), Monday, 4 September 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link
OTM. I think nearly everything that happened to Superman for like five years after the Man of Steel relaunch could be traced back to Luthor.Was just reading in Fingeroth's Superman on the Couch about how villains, by design, MUST be more interesting than the hero. With the hero representing/defending the status quo, the villain represents a threat to such. Which is, y'know, the definition of cool.
The thing about Silver Age Supes is that there was no clean break with the Golden Age stuff. So by the late 50s/early 60s, we can sort of assume that in 20+ years, Superman has pretty much put a lid on every significant threat to law & order. So Superman must face threats of either the benignly trivial (Lori Lemaris tries to trick Supes into proposing to Lois Lane) or the awesomely cataclysmic (Brainiac is putting ENTIRE CITIES into bottles!).
Plus, remember that by the time Superheroes came into vogue again after about a decade in the wilderness, Superman had survived by adapting to the fashions of the day, especially romance comics, and downplaying the Super-ness of Superman.
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 00:40 (seventeen years ago) link
Er...
― Paging Doctor Tuomas! (afarrell), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 08:31 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:01 (seventeen years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:14 (seventeen years ago) link
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:56 (seventeen years ago) link
― Matthew Perpetua! (Matthew Perpetua!), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link
Is it a thing with Luthor, say, that he has been done badly in the films - portrayed as a bit of a joke - so people do not think of him as a serious villain?
― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 20:00 (seventeen years ago) link
― Kit (kit brash), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 20:20 (seventeen years ago) link
Yeah, I don't agree with this at all. Doesn't every comic based around a villain sell terribly? Are any of Spider-Man's villains more interesting than Peter Parker? Are any of Batman's villains besides the Joker (and maybe Ra's) interesting?
Which doesn't mean that they're not good villains - Spider-Man and Batman both have great rogues galleries. But when Doc Ock is robbing a bank, that doesn't seem like he's a rebel who's fighting against the status quo to me.
― The Yellow Kid (The Yellow Kid), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 00:33 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 02:22 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 02:34 (seventeen years ago) link
― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 02:54 (seventeen years ago) link
― M. V. (M.V.), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 03:00 (seventeen years ago) link
Er, "status quo" doesn't necessarily mean oppression/fascism, and fighting against doesn't necessarily mean rebellion in the political sense. Spider-Man tries to uphold the status quo of law and order, and Doc Ock is threatening it by doing crimes, but that doesn't Doc Ock is a revolutionary trying to bring about a better world. Or, take Dark Knight Returns for another example: in it Batman is the rebel fighting against the status quo, but he's also a leader of his own fascist militia - so it's Batman's idea of an order against a different kind of order.
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 06:02 (seventeen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link
― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 15:04 (seventeen years ago) link
― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 15:06 (seventeen years ago) link
― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 15:08 (seventeen years ago) link
― Vic F (Vic Fluro), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 15:21 (seventeen years ago) link