Bob Dylan: Borrower or thief?

erm, i don't think the small faces is who led zep was ripping off here.

This isn't remotely correct. "Rollin and Tumblin" already has umpteen composer registrations (check BMI's database) based on variations of the blues tune, whose original composer is likely lost to time. Dylan is just doing the same thing that's already been done over and over. The waters have been muddy since long before Muddy Waters.

I'd argue that they were. If 'ripping off' equals stealing a song and an arrangement, they certainly had. If the Small Faces had not recorded it, Led Zep would not have a song called "Whole Lotta Love".

"Whole Lotta Love" opens Led Zeppelin II. As mentioned earlier, Steve Marriott and the Small Faces figure into the Led Zeppelin saga. That mod foursome were known for a killer live version of the Muddy Waters "You Need Love." The following paragraph is from "Small Faces: The Young Mods' Forgotten Story" by Paolo Hewitt (1995, Acid Jazz Books).

'A few years later, one of the LP's outstanding tracks, the Marriott/Lane 'You Need Loving,' cropped up again to create rock history, albeit in a different format. '"Whole Lotta Love" by Led Zeppelin was nicked off that album,' Marriott pointed out. 'Percy Plant was a big fan. He used to be at all The Small Faces gigs. We did a gig with The Yardbirds which he was at and Jimmy Page asked me what that number was we did. "'You Need Loving'," I said, "it's a Muddy Waters thing" which it really is, so they both knew it, and Percy used to come to the gigs whenever we played in Kidderminster or Stowbridge, where he came from. He was always saying he was going to get this group together. He was another nuisance. He kept coming into the dressing room, just another little Mod kid. We used to say, "That kid's here again." Anyway we used to play this number and it became a stock opener after that album. After we broke up they took it and revamped it. Good luck to them. It was only old Percy who'd had his eyes on it. He sang it the same, phrased it the same, even the stops at the end were the same, they just put a different rhythm to it.' He laughs. 'For years and years I would hear it come on the radio while driving in America, and I would think, "Go on, my son," until one day I thought, "Fucking hell, that's us, that is. The bastards!"'

"Whole Lotta Love" is obviously, as Steve Marriott pointed, a direct nick of the Small Faces take on "You Need Love." The lyrics are basically the same as the Muddy Waters version. Further, Robert Plant's vocal stylings are indeed modeled directly on Marriott's delivery. One listen to the Small Faces version will lay any doubt aside. Unfortunately, the Small Faces songwriting credits made no mention of Willie Dixon. Of course, neither did Led Zeppelin.

Interestingly enough, Willie Dixon's own daughter, Shirley, brought it to her father's attention. As reported in the October 8, 1994's edition of The Los Angeles Times by Steve Hochman, Shirley Dixon first heard Led Zeppelin's version when she was thirteen. She played it for her father, who agreed it was his song. Willie Dixon was receiving no royalties from it. In 1985, Dixon sued Led Zeppelin for royalties to "Whole Lotta Love." The case was settled out of court two years later, with a generous settlement to Willie Dixon. Today, Shirley Dixon heads the Blues Heaven Foundation (established by her father), which helps blues artists recover their royalties and rights.

what amazes me is that nobody bothered to play that song for willie dixon until 1985.

I don't want to upset you but... the music business ain't all that honest.

Really...

Thanks for the Zep-Faces anecdote. Truely cool factoids. Somewhere I have an old Rolling Stone wherein they mention in the Random Notes section that the Yardbirds were changing their name to Led Zep.

As long as we're sharing, what about the one where Ry Cooder claimed that the Stones ran tape of him messing around in the studio and ripped off his licks for most of Let It Bleed?

who is this factcheckr person?

I guess some challenge was made based on lack of DNA evidence, but no one is sure where Johnson is bureid, so that was tossed.

This actually goes back to the heart of the original question: who wrote the song, and who got paid for it?

And to the points above:

A - "bluesmen" were ripping each other of for years before the English white boys came around to really cash in, and

B - How clued were Dylan, Clapton, Page, et al regarding the mechanics of copyrights, how old were they, how powerful was their management, and even who owned their publishing? Publishing companies and artist management is very powerful in these situations and it's more than possible that these guys had no say in it whatsoever.

Or it could be that they were pricks, and only too happy to rip off their heroes.

And to my fact checking cuz... what''s in a name anyway?

I don't have a copy of Let It Bleed (anymore...) but the Ry Cooder geek sites seem to indicate that he played on Beggar's Banquet (uncredited: mandolin), Let It Bleed (credit: mandolin) and Sticky Fingers (credit: guitar on Sister Morphine). The common story (uncertain how accurate, if at all) is that he was messing aroudn with open tunings and showed Keith how ot use them (which he certain did after, not sure before -- guitar geeks out there???) The story continues that he either played the intro to Honky Tonk Women on recrod or that he did it in the studio just messing around and the lads nicked it.... in the fine tradition noted above...

I first listened to McTell a couple years back when I heard Dylan's "Willie McTell," which has the same tune as "St. James Infirmary Blues."

Anyway, did David Johansen give Dylan an "arrangement" credit on his Harry Smiths version of "Delia," which was Dylan's combination of McTell's "Delia" and Reverend Gary Davis' "All the Friends I Ever Had Are Gone" from World Gone Wrong?

to sum up: thieves, all of 'em.

dunno 'bout dylan and page, but cream (more jack bruce than clapton, it would seem) actually went to some lengths to make sure the correct people were credited and actually received royalties. they had personal contact with skip james and saw to it that he got $ from "i'm so glad." skip saw them play the song shortly before his death, and his widow sent a letter of gratitude to jack bruce.