tarkovsky's stalker

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there isn't a tarkovsky thread so you should all continue to chat about him, here, and encourage me to seek out his movies.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:35 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

YES! I wish I could go. : (

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

oh too late. obv. I hated 'the sacrifice' but now love it. I'm sure 'solaris' ws on at the gft recently and the cinema is the only place to see that one really. momus always says something about 'textural more than textual' so I'll not. we cd talk about 'mirror'?

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

you could've come, too.

they're showing 'alphaville' again, in a week or two, have you seen that?

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:40 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I couldn't really. I'm super-busy this week apparently.

they're showing that at the gft? I'm going to all the godard things at the gft, which inc. 'alphaville', yeah. I have it around here on video somewhere.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

oh, that's at the GFT, too. I meant at the architecture building but I think the GFT is nicer, to watch films in.

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 17:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I always view Tarkovsky as slightly medicinal... i.e., I'm taking my culture medicine. It's a bit like going to a gallery, as opposed to the entertainment world of films. The whole Soviet film 'industry' had completely different aims than Hollywood.

andy, Tuesday, 2 March 2004 19:10 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i dont view tarkovsky that way at all

sokurov raises more questions about pretentiousness and lack of content (though i usually like him too)

when i've seen solaris it's been like a kick in the gut, i cry and cry--stalker i have a greater distance from, perhaps that's in the design; the best part is when he gets the phone call in The Zone

is it a published number i wonder?

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 21:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

tarkovsky is in NO WAY representative of the "soviet film industry"

he had a hard time getting films made, and often they were only made because he was a "prestige" asset

but eventually it was difficult enough that he left, and he died in france

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 22:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Large chunks of Stalker were filmed in Tallinn, in a peculiar 'industrial-ish quarter' that's almost in the centre of the town (and not too far from the port). It's an area surrounded by heavy stone walls, I've never seen what it looks like inside.

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I think the best part of "Stalker" is the whole sequence from where the protagonists enter the zone in their land-rover, up to where they get into the zone, and you see the abandoned tanks, bodies in armoured cars etc. The part where they are on the little rail trolly, and you can see the landscape behind them changing is just phenomenally good, esp w/the newer artemiev soundtrack.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:22 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

he should've went.

cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

>esp w/the newer artemiev soundtrack.

newer?

the one I know has the loop of the rail trolly looping while the filtered electronics slowly grow louder

is there another version?

(Jon L), Tuesday, 2 March 2004 23:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I am a huge fan of Tarkovsky.. Andrei Rublev and Nostalghia above all. Mirror is mostly excellent..

if you haven't had enough sleep, don't go see Stalker. I don't really love it.. I've seen it twice but still feel like I'm missing something.

daria g (daria g), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 01:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I should've gone.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 09:44 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

that's the message of the movie, yes. took me longer to figure it out. so how was it?

wfsdfsdf, Wednesday, 3 March 2004 09:59 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I should've gone.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 10:02 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

don't beat yourself up about it dude.

chris (chris), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 10:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

you're right and you're right.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 10:54 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

you should try to see them in a cinema rather than on a TV too RJG - it helps to be away from other distractions/choices and -> reduce the psychometabolic rate down to the pace of the films
(they do indeed have alot of very long takes and long tracking shots)

in spite of his concerns with the metaphysical/religious/spiritual (maybe implied, or maybe i just misinterpret) not being ones i resonate with, i nonetheless find his films very appealing. i get the same kind of awe as when looking at a magnificent cathedral or stained-glass window - they don't make me believe in god or the afterlife, but they are magnificent.

i got more 'psychological' than spiritual stuff from them - memory, desire, regret - though from certain angles those kinds of feelings sometimes verge on something more 'profound'

he made me appreciate the visual details of things more, and his fascination with rain/trickling/dripping water has something almost sensually/biologically resonant about it (iirc there is a few-seconds shot in 'nostalgia' of rainwater droplets hitting bottles/jars in sunlight - delicate and transitory beauty, all colourbursting microrainbows & gentle chiming , created in the midst of a grotty hovel from 'miserable' weather and a leaky roof...)

solaris is my favourite - it is the only one i have seen more than once - nostalgia second fav - stalker/andrei rublev/the sacrifice all pretty equal to me
i have never got to a cinema to see 'mirror' grrrr

(and ha yes don't go to a hot cinema when short of sleep to see one - this was my downfall at the ica cinema's showing of andrei rublev - iirc (it was 20 yrs ago so i may not) it was at least 3hrs 30min long and i slept through approx 30 mins in the middle...)

Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I live half a block from the glasgow film theatre and one and a half blocks from the centre for contemporary arts.

I never seem to go to the cinema. : (((

I wish cozen would make me.


I will keep an eye open for showings. thanks, ray.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 12:59 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

do you like long takes? really long ones? ... really, really long ones?

I don't know what's happening to me, because my tolerance for long-held shots used to be so low that I needed films like Requiem for a Dream and Run Lola Run. Now, I'm to the point where Stalker's shots didn't really strike me as all that long, all told. Perhaps because so many of them are moving, panning, or tracking shots.

But, yeah, gorgeous film. As of yet one of only two Tarkovskys I've seen (Solaris), but I can't wait to catch Nostalghia and Mirror.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i think it's pretty easy all told to train your eye to new aesthetic experiences, whether that means long held shots or anything else

although i suppose i prefer long shots that have a painterly aspect, that observes one or another principal of interesting composition--which really is most of the long take films that are most respected; i've seen a film by philippe garrel which seemed purposely drab and affectless and even artless in its long takes, and it tested my patience (i take that phrase seriously, i think it's good sometimes to test your patience)

i've never seen "nostalghia" or "the sacrifice"

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:13 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

this 'stalker' was being presented as an architectural film.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

RJG, you're totally welcome to come to the cinema whenever I go.

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I'm not gay!

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:27 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

well, who is, really?

thanks. make me aware of upcoming trips!

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

when cozen is not at the cinema you will be barred from entry of course

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Just piping in... Stalker presented as architectural film is quite spot on, as it is "about" moving in the space of the Zone, searching for the hidden room, moving along oblique routes.

Janne (Janne), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ok. you know I go to the cinema too much tho, right?

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I know. I won't feel the pressure to match you, film-for-film.

they are presenting 'alphaville' as an architectural film, here, too. they say it is a reorganisation of the city [paris] and its component parts. they also said something about strewn and 'like a situationist map'!!!! I've seen it.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"alpha-VILLE, alpha-VILLE, it's only a deri-VÉ!"

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

it's going to be another long summer.

cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

haha, I can't wait.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 13:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Whatever you do, don't try and smoke pot while watching Stalker, you'll go into a trance and loose track. See it in a theater.

J2Dancer, Wednesday, 3 March 2004 23:05 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I can't wait.

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 March 2004 23:10 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Nothing to do with Stalker but I just watched Andrei Rublev tonight. That's quite some film.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 06:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

...and then some?

Huh, I now recall the peculiar circumstances (the very early 80s, Moscow of all places) of watching Rublev myself...

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:18 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

yeah that chapter about the bell is madness. i like the end bit most i think.


stalker, funnily enough, was the film i had least patience. like, ive seen most of his films but that was the first time i got a bit fidgety. but i really wanted to fall asleep.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 11:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

what about the shot where he follows the horses' hooves and then pans down to the battle below? yow

!!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 11:58 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i think the part in the bell chapter where they are waiting to see if it will ring is one of the most suspenseful moments in all of film.

ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:36 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I was about to say, that was incredibly well-handled, and even better, I had no idea whether it would in fact ring or not -- it could have easily gone either way.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:01 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

or the part with the geese flying by?

!!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
soooooooooooooo booooooooooooooorrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Monday, 29 May 2006 19:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

and i enjoyed "solaris"!

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Monday, 29 May 2006 19:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

this is like "mindwalk" with a pedigree.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Monday, 29 May 2006 19:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the zone is sweet!

jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 29 May 2006 20:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i really like this film! i somehow watched it in one sitting.

gear (gear), Monday, 29 May 2006 21:08 (eleven years ago) Permalink

yes the zone is sweet. i would have just as happily have watched a documentary on decaying abandoned soviet factories. still, i didn't need like TWENTY MINUTES of rusting guns underwater when FIVE would have done just as well.

it just seems like lots of things in this movie were absurdly stretched out for minimal payoffs. how many times do i have to watch stalker take a nap??

exceptions: the trolley ride into the zone was great, the part where they are taking a nap in the creek is great, too, where we see all the different bits of detritus in the stream.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Monday, 29 May 2006 21:16 (eleven years ago) Permalink

actually, this was sort of like solaris - 1st half totally watchable, 2nd half same shit as the 1st half happens over and over again w/ minimal development until the last 10 minutes when some big sci-fi revelation happens.

renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Monday, 29 May 2006 21:17 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I was about to bring up The Conqueror.

so many phrases seem to have gone untranslated

Pretty common in foreign films that didn't have an upper-tier UK-US distributor in that era.

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 October 2015 14:06 (one year ago) Permalink

one year passes...

wowwwww

aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 03:01 (seven months ago) Permalink

innit just

calzino, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 05:29 (seven months ago) Permalink

watched this again on blu-ray a couple of weeks ago - never fails to be absolutely captivating

the stalker's dream is one of the most spellbinding sequences in cinema imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0VJa3HmsJQ

Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 09:48 (seven months ago) Permalink

oh i started watching this the other day but my O/h was really tired and not in the mood for b/w with subtitles and gloominess. I really want to watch it though.

Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 10:07 (seven months ago) Permalink

love this so much.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 10:10 (seven months ago) Permalink

dl, it's only in black and white for a while before it transitions to colour (in another indelible sequence)

the b&w photography is so, so beautiful though. it's got so much texture to it

Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 10:14 (seven months ago) Permalink

Yeah, it reminded me of Werckmeister Harmonies quite a lot (I can imagine Bela Tar was highly influenced by this film). As I say, we barely got 20 mins through before we realised this was a film for another time.

Lennon, Elvis, Hendrix etc (dog latin), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 10:19 (seven months ago) Permalink

A few visual similarities aside, I don't think Tarkovsky and Tarr have v much in common. In fact, Tarr articulated the difference quite well: “Tarkovsky is religious and we are not… he always had hope; he believed in God. He’s much more innocent than us – than me. No, we have seen too many things to make his kind of film… he is much softer, much nicer. Rain in his films purifies people. In mine it just makes mud.”

Darcy Sarto (Ward Fowler), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 10:26 (seven months ago) Permalink

It is a great quote but Tarkovsky must have seen some brutality himself growing up during the great terror and then the war.

calzino, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 10:31 (seven months ago) Permalink

I think that even the religious hope in Tarkovsky's films is tempered by some extreme self-doubt. God is hardly pedestaled as some end to suffering.

I like his famous quote about how Stalker should be “slower and duller at the start so that the viewers who walked into the wrong theatre have time to leave before the main action starts.”

dance band (tangenttangent), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 11:12 (seven months ago) Permalink

I agree. That sequence from Stalker posted above is a good demonstration. Mankind is destined to die and be forgotten, and all of its works, including religion. It's like his faith was in the face of knowing there was no destiny or future for mankind beyond this sort-of ultimate apocalypse, and why his works are so emotionally extreme in their beauty. I'm not a Tarkovsky or film scholar by any means, but that's what I get from it at least.

larry appleton, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:05 (seven months ago) Permalink

It is a great quote but Tarkovsky must have seen some brutality himself growing up during the great terror and then the war.

Yeah, nihilists/cynics etc. always think they've seen more that others - the scales have fallen from their eyes, rather than their eyes having scabbed up.

Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 20:20 (seven months ago) Permalink

That Tarr quote makes me think significantly less of him.

circa1916, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 20:31 (seven months ago) Permalink

Reading his dad's poetry and its fantastic, some of the most affecting Russian poetry this side of Tsvetaeva!

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 23:42 (seven months ago) Permalink

Completely agree. Hearing it in Mirror for the first time blew me away.

dowd otm and with best poetic imagery.

dance band (tangenttangent), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 01:38 (seven months ago) Permalink

six months pass...

he stalker's strong resemblance to Woody Harrelson was distracting.

Haha -- true!

One of our art houses will show Stalker next Tuesday -- I'm looking forward to seeing it again. I wonder if they got their hands on the Criterion early?

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 23 June 2017 19:47 (one month ago) Permalink

The 4K resto is via Janus Films, ie the version that Criterion puts out. It's the way the Film Forum in NYC operates now. So really, fuck DCP.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 23 June 2017 20:10 (one month ago) Permalink

I'll be seeing the restoration next Wednesday. They showed the Solaris restoration this week, which was really great.

jmm, Friday, 23 June 2017 21:15 (one month ago) Permalink

Restoration is striking. Saw it in NYC a few weeks back.

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 24 June 2017 00:01 (one month ago) Permalink

Totally. After only seeing it on that crummy DVD, this looked stunning. Great work.

circa1916, Saturday, 24 June 2017 00:03 (one month ago) Permalink

DCP is great though

he not like the banana (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 24 June 2017 15:58 (one month ago) Permalink

If there's a disc, I don't need to pay $15 to see the same thing larger though.

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 24 June 2017 17:03 (one month ago) Permalink

What's DCP?

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 June 2017 17:05 (one month ago) Permalink

Digital Cinema Package- it's the hard drive that digitally projected films are bundled onto.

You guys are caterpillar (Telephone thing), Saturday, 24 June 2017 17:20 (one month ago) Permalink

I'd reckon that a DCP projections has way more in common with a film projection than with a small television

he not like the banana (Stevie D(eux)), Saturday, 24 June 2017 22:01 (one month ago) Permalink

Digital Cinema Package- it's the hard drive that digitally projected films are bundled onto.

― You guys are caterpillar (Telephone thing),

Thanks. Oh, that thing! I haven't seen any notable differences. Stevie otm.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 June 2017 22:11 (one month ago) Permalink

It depends on the smallness of the television, of course, but dcp and celluloid are two fundamentally different things, and they look very different. DCP is fine though, when I helped arrange a showing of Solaris recently we chose the DCP as well.

Frederik B, Saturday, 24 June 2017 22:27 (one month ago) Permalink

The 4K resto is via Janus Films, ie the version that Criterion puts out. It's the way the Film Forum in NYC operates now. So really, fuck DCP

Cannot compute this post.

Heavy Doors (jed_), Saturday, 24 June 2017 22:44 (one month ago) Permalink

Saw the restoration (on DCP) in Philly a few weeks back and was blown away for what it's worth.

You guys are caterpillar (Telephone thing), Sunday, 25 June 2017 02:28 (one month ago) Permalink


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